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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To Wonder Why Tory Voters Support a £13bn cut in benefits (inc tax credits) when hardly any tory voters even receive these benefits?

357 replies

Amylovesgalaxyeggs · 08/04/2015 17:33

Tory voters statistically earn more and live in constituencies that have higher property values.

Tory voters statistically would be less likely to rely on tax credits or other benefits that will be cut by the party.

Aibu to wonder why a group of voters would vote for a party that wants to cut something that they don't claim. Sounds like a of reverse Robin Hood to me.

OP posts:
Dawndonnaagain · 10/04/2015 14:29

Yeah, thanks for that Emma, you just made me a benefit scrounger. I'm obviously not decent, nor hardworking, despite the fact that as someone who was a lecturer before dh became ill and is now a carer and saving the government a fortune. Nice.

Emmaswan · 10/04/2015 16:39

Od Dawn - yawn - we've all been here a trillion billion times.

Do we really have to preface every comment we make with a disclaimer that we are not talking about disabled/ill/elderly/carers? Really??

LotusLight · 10/04/2015 16:42

Nothing does the poor more good than a kick up the backside and a requirement to take personal responsibility and work harder. You do the poor good by making state benefits harder to come by and you make the nation richer which helps the poor (not that the lies the left is peddling about Tory cuts are actually true).

Emmaswan · 10/04/2015 16:50

I'd agree partially with that, Lotus.

Soem of our best entrpreneurs come from poverty - it gives them drive and ambition. It did my DH.

If you can get it cushy without working - why bother to strive?

Emmaswan · 10/04/2015 16:56

Whoops - sorry :

DISCLAIMER : We do not mean carers/disabled/ill/elderly

mariamin · 10/04/2015 16:59

Except carers, disabled, elderly and ill are being hammered by the Tories. And will continue to be.

Dawndonnaagain · 10/04/2015 17:18

(not that the lies the left is peddling about Tory cuts are actually true).
According to my bank account, they're not lies.
According to my exhaustion, they're not lies.
According to the families of people that have died due to cutbacks, they're not lies.
Emma
Yes, you do have to preface every remark with that. 1) Your remarks are untrue anyway, unless you are a parent of a child under the age of five, due to sanctions, it is nigh on impossible to scam.
2) If you were actually capable of doing some research you would discover that there are very few families whereby your the theory you posit is the actually the case.
3) Disability hate crime has increased considerably since this government took power due to the fact that they, with their insidious little tale of deserving and undeserving poor. This means that there are some idiots folk who think that disabled people are just pulling a fast one, a situation that again, is almost impossible these days. But you feel free to try to patronise me, love. Alternatively you could try reading the reality, accepting it and stop rolling your eyes at my posts, and those of the rest of us that actually live this life.

mariamin · 10/04/2015 17:22

Many of us posting are posting about our own experiences. I was at a hospital outpatients clinic today where I was told I will wait a further nine weeks, to get a service that last time I got within a week of needing it. My condition is actually more severe now, than when I waited a week. And I know it is because of cuts, that the Tories keep claiming haven't happened.

Dawndonnaagain · 10/04/2015 17:29

It's got scary now, hasn't it maria. Sorry the bastards have let you down. Flowers

mariamin · 10/04/2015 17:30

Thanks Dawn, yes it is. But what scares me more is how few seem to care. And sadly, I think it is going to get worse.

exmrs · 10/04/2015 17:43

If the Tories cut anymore I can honestly see people committing crime to go in jail as they have to give you 3 meals a day and a roof over your head especially if they being evicted from their houses.

I'm sure on one benefit program a guy did this as he was desperate.

What will happen if there is a huge influx of people wanting to go to jail ?

alwaysstaytoolong · 10/04/2015 18:10

Jesus. Some people need to educate themselves about emotional abuse and gaslighting if they think it can or is occurring on an anonymous Internet discussion forum that any of the posters can walk away from at any time with no effect on their lives whatsoever.

It is an inaccurate and frankly offensive use of those terms which minimises the true nature of psychological abuse that occurs in relationships.

So ridiculous I don't quite believe it's been genuinely suggested. I hope it wasn't.

Ladyleia · 10/04/2015 18:46

In answer to the OPs question, for me, my vote will go towards any party that will control our national debt.

As mentioned upthread, the biggest cost to our state is pensions. We have a demographic timebomb where the young workers are being expected to pay for a much larger older retired population. This is a double whammy as the older the population gets, the more they need help from the NHS and other services that are also funded by the state. I honestly don't see any of the political parties addressing the 'older population' issue but for me, Labour splashing the cash around when times were good so that nothing was left in the cupboard for the bad times means that I'll vote Tory.

This does not mean that I have no compassion for any of the situations that have been relayed on this thread. I do feel for anyone trying to make ends meet when they are disabled/unable to work/seriously ill. For me though, there are other factors to balance against where my vote goes and I do think that enabling businesses to thrive will be the only way people can have jobs and therefore make life better for themselves.

The 'living wage' question has consequences - I wonder at the rise of internships and zero-hours contracts and then the answer as I see it - the introduction of a minimum wage. If you enforce wage levels, the employer only has the option to employ less people. How is this a good thing?

I guess we all give priority to different aspects of life and this decides how we will vote....

GiddyOnZackHunt · 10/04/2015 19:28

Some of our best entrepreneurs come from poverty is true. Do they all vote Conservative? No. Do they think poverty is such a good thing that they make sure their dc have the same? No.

Not having the welfare state didn't mean people kept a buffer to keep them in hard times. For most people hard times meant descending further in to poverty. Living in condemned house. Child mortality. Rose tinted views of a mc past don't stack up for most of us.

Dawndonnaagain · 10/04/2015 20:02

Labour splashing the cash around when times were good so that nothing was left in the cupboard for the bad times means that I'll vote Tory.
An interesting post, and you would find that if you did your research, you may need to change your position. The idea of Labour splashing the cash is a boring and tired trope. The Tories have managed to borrow more since 2010 than the amount borrowed during the whole of the last Labour tenure.

Emmaswan · 10/04/2015 20:11

Brilliant post Lady.

A strong and healthy economy with people in work is the absolutely top priority for many of us.

Without that, we all go to hell in a handcart. i really struggle to see why so many are unable to understand this? I can only assume they think that we can just beg, borrow , spend and tax our way out of this mess and have zero understanding of economics and are thinking only of what they want/can get out of the system.

P.S As high earners we are LESS well off under the Tories.

Emmaswan · 10/04/2015 20:14

The idea of Labour splashing the cash is a boring and tired trope. The Tories have managed to borrow more since 2010 than the amount borrowed during the whole of the last Labour tenure.

Erm, would that be because Labour were in power at a time of a great global booming economy during which they should have saved money for a rainy day?
And when that rainy day ( inevitably) came there was, " No money left!"?

LotusLight · 10/04/2015 20:37

They think the money grows on trees when it doesn't. Getting a strong economy and building on the achievements of the last 5 years is what the nation needs and will be good for those at the bottom too. Vote conservative.

Emmaswan · 10/04/2015 21:05

They think the money grows on trees when it doesn't. Getting a strong economy and building on the achievements of the last 5 years is what the nation needs and will be good for those at the bottom too. Vote conservative.

Hear, hear!

Dawndonnaagain · 10/04/2015 21:39

This is from an economist. Labour created the biggest deficit in the developed world by overspending.

Firstly, the much banded about 2010 deficit of over 11% is false. This is the PSNB (total borrowings) and not the actual budget deficit which was -7.7% - OBR Economic and Fiscal Outlook March 2012 page 19 table 1.2

Secondly, in 1997 Labour inherited a deficit of 3.9% of GDP (not a balanced budget ) and by 2008 it had fallen to 2.1% - a reduction of a near 50% - Impressive! Hence, it's implausible and ludicrous to claim there was overspending. The deficit was then exacerbated by the global banking crises after 2008. See HM Treasury. Note, the 1994 deficit of near 8%.

Thirdly, the IMF have also concluded the same. They reveal the UK experienced an increase in the deficit as result of a large loss in output/GDP caused by the global banking crisis and not even as result of the bank bailouts, fiscal stimulus and bringing forward of capital spending. It's basic economics: when output falls the deficit increases.

Finally, the large loss in output occurred because the UK like the US have the biggest financial centres and as this was a global banking crises we suffered the most. Hence, the UK had the 2nd highest deficit in the G7 (Not The World) after the US and not as a result of overspending prior to and after 2008- as the IMF concur.

HelenaDove · 10/04/2015 22:10

always i know what emotional abuse is thankyou. Maybe it wasnt gaslighting But ppl WERE moving the goalposts. Saying that ppl should pay into private insurances and then when both Dawndonna and i explained why that didnt work we were told it was because we made poor choices. That IS moving the goalposts at best.

HelenaDove · 10/04/2015 22:12

And i havent minimised anything. Ive been on MN for 4 years and post on Relationships quite a lot.

caroldecker · 10/04/2015 23:04

donna again, not a global crisis, a UK/Us one

alwaysstaytoolong · 11/04/2015 06:55

Helena - glad you've adjusted what you were saying and that it's certainly not gaslighting.

People probably are moving the goalposts though and that is annoying!.

Dawndonnaagain · 11/04/2015 08:38

Carol it was a global crisis. The whole of the rest of the globe world accepts that it was a global crisis, other than you.