AIBU to find it disgusting that gypsies have taken over a school playground

[Adizzylass2014]

whilst attending my best friends wedding today in a little village I was horrified to see that gypsies had taken over the school playground. There was rubbish all over the floor, children and dogs running all over the place and scantily clad women puffing away.
why a school playground, these people have no morals. The poor caretaker is going to have his work cut out for him as there was at least 15 caravans!

Before we moved to where we are at the moment, travellers had sometimes been and stayed in a local public place, and the local residents had apparently been unhappy about it. Not having encountered travellers before, I had no view, so when they arrived, it did not deter me from walking my usual route with my dogs, which went through the middle of their camp. I get on with almost everybody from all walks of life, so I expected that to be the same for the travellers. As I approached the site, I was stared at by a group of men round a burning bin, and when I smiled and said hello, they just continued to stare, and not in a friendly way. Then some women started shouting abuse at me from behind, but when I turned to see who it was, the caravan doors slammed shut. To be honest, I was shaking a bit by this point, but too far in to the camp to turn and run, so I continued through, but was in fact rather worried, especially for my dogs. It was an unpleasant experience, and I did nothing to deserve it, in fact i was friendly and open. Obviously, I did not go that way again till they had been moved on, and when I did, I was dismayed to see the amount of human waste, used toilet roll, and household waste littering two fields. It was awful.

Thanks for replying ItsAllGoingToBeFine.

My rough thoughts on the matter - and these are rough - is that you have X number of sites in the UK. Would the traveller population be happy to move around the country in a more arbitary fashion i.e. between official sites. Obviously some areas aren't going to have the land to make an official site - what happens if the travellers decide they want to be there?

I do think its an issue that needs sorting with careful consultation

dejar, my point was that the driving force behind the pressure to 'come out' was that there are situations where some gay people can be sussed, so the idea is that you're going to need to come out to some people at some point, partially because introducing people to your partner/allowing people to see you chatting others up/discussing relationships with others is something completely normal and to completely avoid ever doing so would be restrictive. None of this really applies with the identity of being a settled Traveller/Gypsy.

I don't believe that the majority of gay people come out with the intention of aiding the public image of gays in general - it's a personal decision that is perceived as being advantageous to their own life (as long as it doesn't go horribly wrong). Therefore, while I can perhaps see the benefit to the public image of Travellers/Gypsies if all the invisible settled one 'came out', I don't think you can draw that kind of a comparison, or put the onus on them to do anything like that.

I speak as LGBT myself, by the way.

Andrewofgg I'm confused why you think travellers are treated differently regarding vehicle tax/insurance/MOTs.

They are subject to the same laws as other drivers. Most travellers will have a settled site address that they use to register for vehicles/healthcare/education. It will also be where they live during the winter when they are not travelling. (It's also where they pay Council Tax.) It's not complicated and it's not nefarious. It's the same laws that apply to every other car driver and owner in the UK.

There is so much misinformation about travellers and regardless of how many times these threads pop up on MN and how many posters take the time to knock down the preconceptions and stereotypes, there seems little progress from one thread to the next.

It also means all the problems are self-perpetuating because the lies and half-truths are repeated. Travellers are ostracised. Communities get disrupted. And, actually if people stopped thinking in terms of 'them' and 'us'; and campaigned together to open dialogue; have a fairer planning system; have respect for the different histories and traditions of all communities, and for the law to be applied equally and fairly then it would benefit everyone.

But let's not lose sight of the facts that traveller DCs are much more likely to be bullied than to be the bullies; that 90% of planning applications from travellers are refused; that they are discriminated against by banks, healthcare providers and LAs.

*ones, not 'one'

Fifi

"All residents within the UK pay tax on their purchases, petrol and road tax "

To be accurate, the word "should" belongs in that sentence.

'there is no emergency accommodation made available to them.'

Yes, there is. We have a homeless accommodation in our building of 34 flats. 3 flats with one bedroom and 1 with 2 and 1 with 3.

There are young traveller families staying in the 2 bed and 3 bed, and there have been others in the past.

We do have an HA site about a mile up the road. It is used by Scottish travellers, no bother, we see little of them at all. One boy was in my daughter's school for a year. Lovely wee lad, used to come with his mum to our village Scottish dancing/ceiling nights and dance away every other Saturday.

In Scotland, however, the laws are different and people can be moved on quite quickly and easily.

There is also a privately-owned site about 3 miles away. Again, no problems.

Again, all Scottish travellers.

His answer, "everyone hates us anyway, we might as well".

well thats just fucking childish isnt it

Hardly surprising to see this thread is still going. A lot of what has been said is vile, disgusting and bigoted. Misinformed, and based upon a few bad experiences then applied to all. There are some more decent open minded folk and I want appeal to them to keep their heart open for a troubled race, that's not perfect, that doesn't want, expect or need special treatment, as has been banded about, we wanted, equality. Which has never been the case, is still not the case and so on. From my soul I'm saddened by the horrible things that have been said about my race. Yes we are a race, look up the Commission for Racial Equality.

I agree with you NotallTravellers but I don't agree that it is based on 'a few ad experiences' there have been a number of examples, but I don't think for a second that the experiences should dictate how we think about or treat all Travellers and Gypsies.

To be honest, I'm surprised that MNHQ have allowed this thread to stand. If it was about any other minority it would have been deleted hours ago.

The answer is to leave them alone.
There is no way I would travel, but I'd love to. I would love to experience what my family did, live as they did to some extent.
We (I mean any people) aren't allowed to now and are expected to stay in camps and be registered, not that I'm suggesting people shouldn't pay their way, but the freedom has gone.
This is why so many Romanies became house dwellers, why they gave up the road.
They are still the same people, following the same traditions, keeping themselves to themselves.
It is such a shame so many want to spout about gypsies/ travelling folk/ romanies/ or whatever title you want to use whilst knowing nothing at all about their cultural traditions.
As for dirty, you are havin a laugh, their waggons are perfect and they are a lot cleaner than many people I have seen in my life.

Has it not occurred to some of you bucketheads that a big part of the problem is the way a minority group (wealthy people from wealthy families) have slowly but steadily divided the country into them-and-their-mates who can do whatever they like and other people who must be controlled? The demonisation of travellers/gypsies and the attempts to control them ie stop them travelling is not disconnected from the way it is getting harder and harder for many non-travelling people to make a reasonable life for themselves. No affordable housing, no secure jobs, and obstacles in every direction you might turn to try and support yourself and your family. If you are poor, now, various options that would have been open to you are pretty much closed. You won't have a garden, for instance, so you can't grow vegetables or keep a couple of chickens to improve your diet. It's harder to boost your income by doing things like cleaning, decorating, gardening or dog-walking in a lot of places, as this work is now being done by companies/agencies who charge less by the hour (because they are paying their employees less than the minimum wage by means of a variety of creative strategies such as using trafficked labour). Taking 'any job you can get' is no guarantee of any kind of stability: even if you are willing to be 'flexible' ie work unpaid overtime at no notice, you're still quite likely to get the boot and be replaced by some poor workfare serf.
And more and more 'public' spaces are being gated off, patrolled, forbidden to people who don't have very much money, even to walk through and admire the view.
Meanwhile wealthy people from wealthy families and wealthy executives from huge corporations run amok doing what they like. They take over vast chunks of land to build 'executive homes' or shopping malls, causing any amount of noise and mess: popular public buildings get turned into 'luxury flats' with no replacement on offer, 'basement conversions' cause serious structural damage to roads and other buildings in urban areas, but this is all ignored in favour of dehumanizing groups of people who want to live a different kind of life.

Yes, there are problems with gypsy/traveller culture in that, like any 'traditional' culture, there's a lot of misogyny which needs addressing, but wanting to live in one place is not in any way morally superior to wanting a nomadic way of life.

NotallTravellersarebad there are plenty of us who despite having bad experiences, would never write off a whole race of people. I really do think many people will have come across lovely gypsies/travellers but simply had no idea

morethanpotatoprints I don't think leaving them alone is the answer. I think providing more legal sites is the way to go.

I think creating more legal sites is a great idea, but how easy is that in practice?

What if there are boroughs that don't have the land to create sites and Travellers or Gypsies want to stay there? What if the sites are full and Travellers or Gypsies want to go there?

Well this is it Koala, there is a housing/accommodation shortage that's affecting everyone

Also, the legal sites have to be booked in advance and that might not suit travellers who don't/can't plan too far ahead.

If I opened up the furthest 4 acres of my land as a traveller site complete with all the shower/toilet, large refuse bins, hard standing, brick storage sheds and good sized caravan/chalet plots. With opportunity to expand or keep there horses. What do you think would happen?

Would my neighbours hate me? Think me deranged for bringing 'those people' to their door?

Would the travellers even want to stay on the site? Would I rent it to one family at a price based on all the plots being full and let that family collect their rent from the other travellers?
Would family fueds be brought to my land?
Would they steal from me and trash my land?

Would the crime rate go up? Would I regret it in a few months/years? If so how difficult would it be to remove them and return the land to field?

There are so many possible answers to those questions which makes the answer for me, and I'm guessing many others, no as the potential backlash is likely to be greater than any benefit to the landowner

Yes Worra there doesn't seem to be a straightforward answer. It's sad that their culture is being eroded.

For the academics amongst you.
There are some good films and clips here somewhere, it's so interesting anyway.
Hoping to do the introductory course one day.

romani.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/

My uncle opened his land up to Gypsies and Travellers, he had a large plot in a very expensive area. (Imagine £million mansions and then a plot of land covered in caravans) His neighbours were furious. He didn't have any trouble from the Gypsies or Travllers but his neighbours made his life difficult as he was 'dragging their house prices down' it only made him more determined to continue.

You see, this is the problem though.
Let people travel in small families, don't restrict them, let them use common land and you don't have the problems you have with camps.
If they leave a mess they are hardly going to be allowed on the land again.
The problems only happened when freedom to roam was stopped.

What land is 'common' morethan? (Genuine question, I don't know)

"From my soul I'm saddened by the horrible things that have been said about my race."
I agree, there have been some awful comments and they should be challenged. But you also have to hold some of your fellow travellers responsible for ruining relations with other communities. And I would say that to Asians about grooming, forced marriages, Muslims about extremism etc. You have far more power than we do, as outsiders, to encourage change.
My family has had our hearts open to travellers - my dad tried to do a favour for a sick traveller child and instead was ripped off, my husband did work and was never paid, my friend made a misjudged but well-meaning comment and was beaten to a pulp, my son was strangled at school. There comes a point where you just give up being open and try to protect yourself.

well said more than, problems increased because rights to roam were made more or less illegal and definitely repressed an ethnic minority whose culture and backbone was nomadic. Ffs a cat has more rights than Gypsies and Travellers, and they shit anywhere .

Koala

I'm not sure tbh, I only know the argument started because they weren't allowed to stay on it any longer.
I guess then a lot was taken by councils.

There used to be a place not far from here that until the 80's was common ground it has a fence round it now, nobody uses it. It's too close to a housing estate, you see.
It couldn't stay just free land, nimby.

Oh ok, morethan I just wasn't familiar with the terminology and thought it might have been a solution.

The problem is, even if the council were to try and propose sites there would be a lot of pressure from the local communities to not actually do it. This thread has shown just how much animosity there is towards Travellers and Gypsies.