To ask how families with non teaching parents manage DCs during school holidays?

[Sheitgeist]

Just that, really.
I am an out of work primary teacher in an area where there are rarely any vacancies. If they do crop up, there can be in excess of 100 applicants. I'd gladly be a TA, but it seems impossible to get that job too!

I'm looking outside of education now, but if I get a basic admin - or indeed any other job - I'll likely get around 5 weeks holiday. DH gets 6. Our two school age children (still at primary) get 13!
If I put them in a holiday club it will cost around £250 per week; childminder (if I can find one for school age children) would be a bit over £300. More than I'm likely to be paid!

We have parents or inlaws to help out. I'm feeling pretty unemployable now. What do other working parents do?

With a lot of stress, that's how. DH and I rarely have days off together so our leave is split iyswim. DPs have DCs once or twice a week ( I realise we are very lucky - but DM is unwell so we don't take advantage as she gets v tired) And in summer hols we have to use summer clubs. Not one day of mine or DHs annual leave is wasted on anything frivolous - all is reserved for school holiday cover!

Oh and meticulous planning months in advance. Spreadsheets!

Sometimes things can't be meticulously planned. My Ds had a lot of health problems when he was younger including surgery- he rarely had above 80% attendance at school, and these sick days could never be planned in advance.

And if you think it's hard with primary aged DC...it's even harder when they are at secondary school. Sports clubs tend to be 9-4....getting them there and collecting then turns into a headache.

Fourteen I think you can tell from everyone's reaction to your "do something else" comment that that's not how anyone read it. Nor, I suspect, how you meant it. But yeah, whatever.

antumbra no one has told you you "should get a better paid job"

Good point on covering sickness - all the planning in the world won't help when someone is unexpectedly sick or has to take a long while off school.

It's ridiculous really isn't it - what proportion of adults in this country are parents? So why is it still so hard?

Oh exactly Bit, "whatever".

That's exactly how I meant it, and then I went to bed.

But "whatever"

Can you get an admin job in the public sector? They often have reasonable childcare policies for parental leave and so on?

I work PT (3 days) so over holidays 2 days are covered. Still leaves lots of holidays to be covered. DH self employed and takes 2 weeks max throughout the year. It s a juggling act. Particularly when they get to the age where they don't want to be in crèches and clubs anymore.
I m constantly amazed at the amount of people I know that take 2 weeks at Easter, Christmas and mid terms plus the summer off. Of course I know they re using unpaid leave etc.
I d love a teaching job.

When they are at secondary school then if they are at the local school they can usually walk there or take buses. It's only if you've chosen a school that's awkward to get to or you live in the middle of nowhere that you'd need to pick a secondary school child up surely?
Mine made their own way home and my siblings and I did when at secondary school. Walk, bus, cycle.

I know fourteen, it was childish. Sorry. But I've sort of run out of steam this morning and that was the best I could come up with! Actually it felt quite good saying it! But sorry I know it's infuriating.

Anyway , what I was trying to say is I am not the only one who read your "do something else" comment as "get another job then"

Erm 2Rebecca we are talking about school holidays not getting home from school

What about supply teaching? Sign on with an agency in the short term but you should earn enough to stretch to cover holidays. Teaching is one of the most parent friendly jobs. You miss out on daytime things like celebration assemblies etc but so do other working parents. I was so fortunate as dh and I both taught. My dd, ddil, dss are all teachers too. I really feel for you if you struggle with child care.

Just wanted to agree with those lamenting the lack of extended family. It really sucks. (And I'm with myred - Xmas sucks most of all.)

I find people often don't believe it.

I've had this so much from my midwife and it drives me mad.

'You have no family?'

no I lied they are all alive and well and living down the road

It is possible to work term time only in an administration job. I looked for a term time only job. There are some out there if you look. I got lucky and found one within 4 months of looking.

School holidays are one of the reasons why I intend to stay a sahm.

I have no family who could help me. I have massive sympathy for working parents with no family support...I do not think you can begin to compare their experience with those of working parents who have willing grandparents living locally.

DH gets 20 days holidays and MUST keep 4 for Christmas shutdown.

I get 30, but have to work around office stuff so can't just take all summer off.

We've never had family around to cover the whole hols.

Dd was in FT crèche when smaller - €1400/month.

Now at school. Initially, she went to afterschool club in a local crèche, which was expensive during term (€500+/month) but collectd from school, gave hot dinner and good care for afternoon - but also did include full cover for all days off in term for that (so various in-service days etc, and a few "snow days" one winter) and also did holiday camps at regular crèche hours (€280/week but 07.30-18.30 hours). We also started to send her to other camps for a couple of weeks each summer (she loves sailing and sports) which were mornings, and I'd take afternoons off which spread out my leave. And she would always spend a week in the countryside with PILs too.

Now she has too many activities in school after hours, so goes to the afterschool club (Den) in school. Which is cheaper, gives a snack rather than dinner, closes at 6pm but is also good for DD. They run a camp in school (DD doing that this week) and offer after-care in Den. €6/hour and only charge by the hours she's in.

In summer, she will do 1 week in school camp. She will also do 1 or maybe 2 weeks sailing (which is 9-5). She will do a week at PILs. She will probably go to science camp in the University near my office (finishes at 2) and I will take half days that week. She will probably want to spend a week at the sports camp in the same Uni and that's up to 3.30 but also offers post-care until 5.30. We will take a couple of weeks off together too.

I am also lucky in the last 2 years that an Aunt is no longer caring for DGran, so having retired a few years ago, is very happy to do some collections etc. I wouldn't ask her to do a full week of minding, as she also looks after my DCousins (same age as DD) but she does collect DD from some lunchtime finishes on occasion and has her for the odd full day. But she has a very full diary and we are both happy to have it as irregular and everybody happy, but she will also be able to do a "grab DD from Den when I am stuck in an emergency" role too.

Also, as DH was working abroad 50% of his time for 4 years, we have had au pairs for that time (although only 1 was over summer) - which covered some weeks at start and end of summer hols some years. But that was handy for Easter and mid-terms (they all went home for Christmas).

Since APs left, we have a minder coming in every morning for an hour - to get DD up and out for school. She is very happy to do holidays too, in general, and even afternoons or full days in hols (she minds her DGD too, who is a year behind DD in same school) - so this week she's taken DD 2 afternoons as well as mornings, and will do the drop 2 mornings next week too (sailing next week so long days and we can collect).

But we've always just managed it ourselves. It costs a lot, yes, and it takes a lot of organization. But just because we are not teachers it has never entered our heads that we have a problem with school holidays. That is just part of the reality of me keeping up my career, and DH keeping up his.

And we don't get childcare vouchers here, or any other assistance for working parents.

I know I am lucky that we can afford this. I save money during the year to cover camps. When we had APs, things were quite stretched but I couldn't do morning drop to school and get back for evening collection while commuting to work and getting all my own stuff done - so I cut back on lots to allow it happen. We could get cheaper camps but then hours wouldn't work for us, and I possibly could take advantage more of mums at school and relatives near us - but I don't feel that I can impose on them.

It is a juggling act for all working parents.

There are 13 weeks holiday in the year, if you get 5 weeks AL you only need to pay for 8 weeks care. The nursery near us does a holiday club at 26 a day each for 8-6, so that is 260 a week for 2 children, and there are holiday clubs for the same amount at other nearby schools who take children from any school . If you pro rata that out across the year it is 174 a month, and if you claim that as childcare vouchers it will actually cost you less than that. Honestly I don't think that is bad. Certainly not when you compare it to the 800+ a month we are currently paying for two preschoolers at 3 days a week (with the 15 hours free for one of them). Frankly I cannot wait for them to both be at school, I will feel rich!

Our families live 2.5 hours away (driving, on a clear run day - can be almost double that sometimes). Our siblings live there or further away. So it is mostly just us. The few relatives we both have near us are much older and have other concerns, so are not really in a position to help out caring for a primary-age DC who is full of energy and fussy about her food. (ADHD and aspergers so we pick our battles).

This was one of the main reasons I went freelance - although trying to work with the kids running around you is difficult as well. They're older now so I spend most of the time trying to get them out of bed and doing something other than looking at a screen!

When they were younger I worked part time and used holiday clubs a couple of days a week but they hated those - hardly any of their friends went as they either had SAHMs or teachers for parents. The younger one went to a childminder for a while and he liked that. My mum is quite old and she hasn't really been able to help much for a few years, although when they were babies she did help out quite a lot.

The last couple of years when I worked for someone else, I did a huge spreadsheet for the summer holidays so I knew what was happening when. I was lucky that I worked for an employer who was quite flexible, so I often did full weeks throughout June and July to earn the extra days to give me more holiday time.

Basically you have to be very organised, although if you and/or your OH don't have a job with some flexibility, or very helpful family/friends, I have no idea how you would cope.

Good luck!

I'm from Fife Primal , would be great to work there!

I hear ya. I went to Newport Primary and they could have built three schools in the grounds and still had more than enough playground.

Alright Bit fair enough. It was late, I was tired and about to get into bed. I wouldn't say something as crass as "get another job" but you and others aren't to know that.

Fwiw I'm an expat, no family in my country and I'm a lone parent with no support from ex in laws. All my friends are made through work so they all work full time too, obviously! So I know it's hard.

For that reason I'm currently renegotiating my job with an eye on the medium term and being able to be more flexible for dd as she gets older. I understand that I'm in a privileged position to be able to do that.

If I wasn't teaching or doing something that had a little flex, I'd probably have to move 1000 miles back home to be near family support. I appreciate that also isn't an option for everyone.

My kids go to school now but we're out of the house from 8am until 6.30pm every day, so they go to a childminder for wraparound care anyway. She just has them full-time in the holidays - like she did when they were tiny. It's obviously much more expensive - I hate August - but it's fine. She has them on inset days, snow days, when school's closed for the election, whatever.

Childminders are brilliant - and lots will take on extra/different kids for the holidays so definitely worth investigating as an option.