To ask how families with non teaching parents manage DCs during school holidays?

[Sheitgeist]

Just that, really.
I am an out of work primary teacher in an area where there are rarely any vacancies. If they do crop up, there can be in excess of 100 applicants. I'd gladly be a TA, but it seems impossible to get that job too!

I'm looking outside of education now, but if I get a basic admin - or indeed any other job - I'll likely get around 5 weeks holiday. DH gets 6. Our two school age children (still at primary) get 13!
If I put them in a holiday club it will cost around £250 per week; childminder (if I can find one for school age children) would be a bit over £300. More than I'm likely to be paid!

We have parents or inlaws to help out. I'm feeling pretty unemployable now. What do other working parents do?

And again, housinghub's comments about not everyone wanting to "put children before employment". Can I point out that some of us are working, not because we don't love our kids enough to stay at home with them. But to put a bloody roof over their heads and good on the table. Sheesh! I'm going to have to hide this thread soon

Don't worry bitout - I'm with you 100%.

Mumsnet is often sneery about low paid work; not sure why.

under I think you might need you to stroke my arm and make soothing noises!

The inability of some folk to see past the end of their noses is staggering sometimes isn't it?

..but there are lots of other suggestions on here, including teaming up with other families in similar situations, which would work equally well for low wage jobs where leave during peak times is bloody impossible tricky to negotiate. This could work particularly well in the day shift/night shift scenario - so only one night worker at a time is staying awake to supervise DC, and no one is doing it lots of days in a row.

I for one do recognise that our childcare costs would be a lot higher if we didn't both have a huge degree of flexibility in where and when we work, and the freedom to choose when we take holiday until someone decides you have to cancel it for some crucial deal/customer/project . I think the location dependent (manufacturing, retail, healthcare) jobs have, in the past, relied a lot more on extended family but clearly that doesn't work for everyone so the only option that I can see is to create your own "family" for these purposes.

There are other suggestions, yes.

That doesn't mean the dismissiveness of some isn't rude and frustrating though.

And these are not the women - and it is women - doing nothing for minimum wage. These are the women ensuring your granny is fed and clean and safe, often working unsociable hours, the women who have sore feet after second you in the restaurant and the women sitting behind the tills in the supermarket.

To dismiss them with 'do something else' is rude and I can quite see why someone took huge exception to both that comment and the one that insinuated that they put employment before their children.

Bit - I wrote "I know not everyone is in a position to do this, or would have the desire to put children above employment". I know not everyone can structure their working lives to make more time for children at holidays. A minority could but choose not to, and I know for many others it doesn't look like there is an easy way to manage it. But the OP asked how people cover the school holidays, so I offered my approach. I am not getting at you, or anyone else, just adding a response on how some people manage it. And our approach didn't happen overnight or come as a result of massive privilege, but by planning ahead, working out what priorities we wanted to set and being realistic about what could be achieved. This has involved a fair amount of unpaid or low paid work on my behalf - I have massive respect for people who do what they can to get by and want to do the best for their kids.

Fantastic helpful responses here which have certainly made me realise that it is possible to work outside of teaching with a bit of juggling and planning. Thanks, all.

Nice to see that others were taking tips from here, too.

The suggestions and experiences here have been numerous and varied, so there is food for thought for all sizes of budget and job types. Some will work for some; others for others. Still surprising how difficult it is, given that so many families are in this position.

I ended up giving up work and going back to being a WAHM. But we have 12 week long summer holidays. It's not impossible, but it can be tough.

Well good for you househubs. But you know that is not how you phrased your first post so..

And I know you're not getting at me because you have no idea what I do, how I prioritise my family and work, or what sacrifices I have made. Because I haven't said.

What find objectionable is people who blithely assume that the choices they have made are right for everyone. Or even that those choices are even available to others.

For instance, what if you and your DH had split up? Or either of you (God forbid) were seriously ill! Or got made redundant. So that you didn't have the luxury of a substantial salary in the family to fund your choices. So your "low paid work" wasn't a addition to your income. It WAS your income. Would you be quite so willing to say "ah but many women won't make sacrifices like I have". Probably not.

As myred and bitoutofpractice said I was loling at the casual way that some mumsnetters seem to think that all you have to do is tell your employer that you want to take this that holiday,annual leave is magically granted and thats that. or just ask family etc

I honestly dont think that some people on here realise that many many people do work in low paid or do awkward hours or work in retail or hospitality where you just cannot say to your manager oh ill have four weeks off over the summer hols 2 weeks over xmas can you accomodate this please!

im really not knocking anybodies childcare choices in the slightest, if you can afford to get an aupair fine, if you work in a company that lets you take time off fine. Yes I'm extremely lucky to have dp to help, I havent always. ive worked as a single parent and childcare is a nightmare. I dont have any extended family to help and im extremely at those who have.
fwiw I will probably have to put dd2 and 3 in some kind of holiday club over the summer hols. I sometimes wont be getting home till 6 pm. dp will only be having 3 hours sleep. Really not fair on him.

Hi, haven't RTFT but this is what we do

I earn a decent wage. I work mon - Thur and earn around the national average.

DP earns minimum wage, he works about 20h, but this always includes weekends.

We have no family close so we take 'opposite' time off and holidays. Usually we overlap for a 2 week hol in summer.this year we are only overlapping for 1 week.

We pay for holiday club
We have my parents to stay for 1 weeks but book DD into an activity so they aren't overwhelmed ( they are elderly) & mainly do drop offs and pick ups
We use opposite hols - I can usually buy additional annual leave & the cost is averaged out over the year.

I only work part time. I try and do as many overtime hours as I can cram in during term time so that I'm working between school hours and paying nothing on childcare. This then means I can squirrel money away for the school holidays when I need to go down to my financially crippling part time hours to avoid paying out heavily on childcare.

I use up my 5 weeks worth of annual leave during school holidays - 1 week in April, 2 weeks in the summer, 1 week in October and 1 week to cover the February break and a few in-service days.

My parents are an amazing help both during term time and school holidays. My mum works within education so she is off with the schools. We try and work our holidays out together so that we are away and home again at roughly the same times so that she can watch DD for the few days I am working. It doesn't always work out and obviously she has a lot of plans herself, so in those instances I turn pleading eyes on my very understanding boss who gives me a lot of wiggle room with my hours. For instance, we're away on holiday the first week of the Easter break and my folks have planned trips for the second week. So I've been able to enroll DD on a local activity camp run through the council and leisure center Mon-Fri for the second week. It starts at 10am and finishes at 3pm and they do a huge range of sport, drama, arts and crafts, games and music activities with the children. Because I'm on a very low income, DD's leisure membership is already discounted and these holiday camps are offered through said memberships. So the cost works out at a tiny £36.00 for the full 5 days Normally I would start work at either 6 or 9 am, but my lifesaver of a boss will let me start at 10.15. Because DD is sorted for the five days, I can work some time back and do some overtime to help her out/keep her sweet.

The activity camp is run through the summer as well and you can pick and choose how many/what days you would like your child to attend. I'm keeping it in mind so that I can rely less on my mum (I feel horribly guilty with the amount of help she gives me), work some overtime and keep DD from getting really bored

what are childcare vouchers btw. ive never heard of them

Well I did say I thought fourteen was being a bit disingenuous so not everyone is blind to those earning nmw. But it is of course true that people often lack awareness or empathy for situations outside their direct experience. This isn't at all directed at fourteen, more probable at many parents I know personally.

I have found that there is more empathy and understanding of others with financial constraints than those with emotional issues. So lots of friends of mine have no concept of what it's like to have no extended family whatsoever. They think Christmas is always jolly and festive and family orientated. They tell me they're not close to their family yet they spend Easter weekend with their parents and brother and kids. Then recount all the tender moments with cousins. They get awkward when I talk about my mother's unlawful killing. Yet if I said we'd lost all money and house etc they'd genuinely empathise even though they've never struggled financially either. It's strange.
I imagine the lack of empathy in these things (Christmas etc) is far worse for parents who have lost a child. There is real awkwardness towards bereaved parents esp those who defied Christmas is no longer for them. I'm thankful daily not to be in that place.
I'm drunk and rambling now so I'll leave the thread.

myred I'm so so sorry to hear about your mum. That is horrific I can imagine a little how those comments must make you feel.

I hear what you're saying about empathy. I find it is often in short supply for whatever reason!

No, I'm sorry. That turned into a self indulgent rant. Mum was killed by a drunk driver and the anniversary is coming up. I'm just having a little bitter moment. Sorry all.

I also have friends who just totally dont get what its like to have no extended family around for support. I work with 2 women who are mum and dd. The mum helps her dd and her other dc out everyday with childcare, doing pick ups and over night stays etc. I skip my breaks to make sure I finish work on time.. Before 3 so I can do school pick up . both cant comprehend that I have no help.. I get surely if you told your mum she would pick them up etc.. No. she wont. ive asked.

I too am rambling. goodnight

myred im sorry too.

Hey myred that sounds totally understandable. Sometimes this stuff comes tumbling out when we least expect it to. Hope you sleep ok

And you blackheart. I also have no family within 200 miles so I know what you mean

Blackhearted - childcare vouchers was (is) a scheme whereby you can choose (if your employer enables it, but many did/do) to take part of your salary as (electronic) vouchers which can be used to pay for Ofsted-registered childcare, including nurseries, childminders, nannies and some holiday clubs (including, slightly bizarrely, PGL). The benefit is that they come out of pre-tax income, so you get an extra whatever-your-tax-rate-is % for your money. Clearly doesn't help if you can't afford any deduction from your salary and/or don't reach the tax threshold.

Also, I think it may have been superseded by the latest fund matching thingummy but admit that I stopped paying attention to that as soon as I realised that my DC were too old to qualify and that they weren't going to stop childcare vouchers for those already using them.

Bit I just need to address your comment and say that's not what I meant at all.

I meant that that everyone's job and circumstances are different, and everyone makes the childcare arrangements which suit them. At the end of the day, kids have to go to school and parents have to work, so you simply have to come up with something.

If someone else can afford a nanny, or is able to take unpaid leave then that is great for them, but if you can't you do something else ie you make a different arrangement. Blackheart has a DP and an elder child who can help out, so that's what they do.

I didn't mean that you simply get another job.

And I entirely agree with myred (was it her?) who said that having a higher level education of course gives you more options.

When I was in this situation I used to do two weeks, DH did 2 weeks, my mother came down for 2 weeks in the summer and the odd half term to help. The boys had some interesting experiences with childminders (one took them on long trips to Asda) but the best option, once they were older, was a student for the remaining weks. Quite cheap and great fun.

I work pt so that's two days sorted automatically. The rest is leave, flexileave (both of us), odd days with a childminder and a holiday club. Mil offers but I can't trust her - so many things - and would rather pay ££££££ for holiday childcare.

We manage. There's no possibility of tto really - Jul/Aug are often my busiest months.

I think if you are pricing up going back to work in an admin job, you do need to price up not just the term time childcare costs, but factor in the school holiday costs and divide across the year. You might also think carefully if you want to look for a job now, if you were to start just before the summer, that might end up costing you far more than you'd earn, compared to looking for work in the summer for a september start and then have a whole year to save up for the big holiday.

I would say you factor in a maximum 2 weeks off a year at the same time as DH. You also need him on board with working out what holiday leave he needs to take and booking that off straight away. There will be no taking a day off term time to do personal stuff.

Part time work (that's part time on say 3 full days rather than 5 half days) might work out better for you, then DH's '6 weeks leave' can cover more of your working weeks.

There are childminders, holiday clubs, ask grandparents to step in for one week, and childcare swaps with other mums (which does mean you spend your holiday time with other DCs in your house).

In the end, the holidays were what swung it against it being profitable for me to work so I've become a SAHM for now.

In your situation, I'd keep applying for anything educational ASAP. (And many TA roles don't come up until the summer for september)

It is hard for all parents- but harder for some than others.

Some parents have jobs that can take flexible leave, some earn so much that they can employ a nanny or au pair.. Some have 4 grandparents living close and other extended family willing to look after children.

So I get where blackheart is coming from.

I am a career for my disabled mother- the only family I have within 5000 miles. OH has no-one. I also work 30 ish hours a week and my OH has a job with very long hours and is often away on business. We don't have a high wage.

Those factors limit our choices.

To say we should work around that or get a better paid job is patronising.