Was I BU to use the disabled toilet?

[Unplastered]

At a local national trust place today, just me with Dd age 6 and baby in his pram.
The baby change unit in the loos is just in the main area, there's a long row of (tiny) cubicles and a large disabled loo with a sink in.
Dd and I both needed the loo, there was nobody around, so I took both kids in the disabled loo.
As we came out there was a woman approaching the loos on a crutch. She hadn't been waiting - she was just approaching as we exited. She told me, sharply, that I shouldn't have used that loo, the baby changing wasn't in there. I said I knew that, we hadn't needed to use it, just wanted a bigger cubicle so as not to leave the baby outside. She replied it didn't make any difference as none of us was disabled.
Was I BU to use the disabled loo?

Disabled toilets are there so toilets can be accessible to everyone.
Everyone with a disability. Those without disabilities have toilets that are accessible to them.

What do people think happened with children in the "bad old days" when people with disabilities were ignored and had no provision for accessible toilets? Did no one take children out in public in the past? No, they managed perfectly well (and people with disabilities were left to suffer indignity and discomfort).

I would happily leave my daughter outside the cubicle if I needed a pee and I couldn't get the buggy in. Most have gaps under the doors, I'd park it with the wheels visible. Believe me, if someone moved it I would leap off that loo, trousers round my ankles! When she was a bit older, and DD3 was in the buggy, they'd both stand outside - she'd wiggle her toes under the door so I knew she hadn't wandered off.
The only time I have used an accessible loo was in a station where the baby change was next to the loo through an intercom door and the ladies' ones were down a flight of stairs with a turnstile. 6yo DD wanted a wee so I let her use the loo while I changed DD3. She was shouted at by a lady who came in after us. I felt mortified, but honestly I'm not sure what else I could do with a cross-legged 6yo - no way I would have sent her out with 20p in Waterloo station to find her way to the loo herself. If I thought she could wait, I'd have taken her and DD3 down the stairs once I'd finished poo-clearing and shoved DD3 back in the sling.

I totally get that some disabled people need to go to the toilet more urgently than others, but I can't help feeling that this discussion is all based on 'theory' rather than reality. After all, if your disability is such, that being unable to access the toilet IMMEDIATELY causes the levels of pain and humiliation as described here, you wouldn't be likely to out shopping without without further precautions or provisions in the first place. After all, you can never guarantee immediate access due to other disabled people using the facilities (and they may be a looong time in there if they have severe needs!)

If you read the thread though you will see it is reality for people. People have posted their own experinces of that reality.

Just because they may have to wait for someone who is rightly using the toilet doesn't make it right that they have to wait to use it because of someone who just doesn't want to use the ladies.

It isn't just that though House, the baby change was there, you were there anyway so fair enough.

The poor planning if a business putting the baby change in there wasn't down to you.

Oh and Virginia don't you think disabled people have enough planning to do? I've spent the past couple of weeks actually planning the logistics of getting to DS' birthday treat via public transport (bearing in mind the tube is largely inaccessible and buses often only take one wheelchair, we use two). Are you seriously suggesting because people can't have a little bit of consideration we should have further aggravation with planning?

based on 'theory' rather than reality well may be theory for some, but day to day reality for others.

It does sound a little like you are saying, well it is a pita for people with disabilities to get out and about anyway, so what does it matter if people that don't need them, use the few facilities designed for the use of disabled people.

Lots of people need the toilet now. That is their disabilty, ffs!

Bishop, there was a cubicle next to the baby change (the buzzer leads you to the room with a baby change and a cubicle) - so with hindsight maybe I should have asked if she needed the loo and taken her down for a wee before using the baby facilities. Think she was BU for shouting, "you're not disabled" at a young child though. She could have asked me why I was letting the child in and I'd have told her it was because I didn't fancy getting a wet child on the train!

Yes it was unreasonable to shout that at a child.
As I said i don't challenge because I understand the different types of disability that mean you need to use the disabled facility, for whatever reason. But I WILL challenge people who post on an Internet forum about how it's ok to not consider other people and act eelfishly. Because that's what it is, and it's not ok.

After all, if your disability is such, that being unable to access the toilet IMMEDIATELY causes the levels of pain and humiliation as described here, you wouldn't be likely to out shopping without without further precautions or provisions in the first place. After all, you can never guarantee immediate access due to other disabled people using the facilities (and they may be a looong time in there if they have severe needs!)
If you read the thread a number of us have pointed out that we do make provisions, but 1)sometimes it isn't enough. 2) Why is that we're lumbered with extra washing because somebody is being selfish. 3) We understand that on occasion a person with a disability is likely to be using the lavatory, that's why we take spare changes. 4) Trust me, there are days when we don't go out because society doesn't make it easy, because the world isn't in fact accessible, physically or otherwise.

So what you're saying, Virginia, is that it's absolutely fine to make someone with a disability or a condition like IBS piss or shit themselves, because they're used to it by now and won't have come out without a change of pants and trousers?

So the discomfort and humiliation doesn't matter, because we're prepared for it. It's not like we're human, after all.

Jesus Christ I argued up thread about us needing courtesy for each other and to help each other out with these things but that does not make these toilets a free for all. Strawberry you're out of order. The only inconvenience you have is your inability to say NO to your child. Sort it.

So Virginia,my kid with a continent stoma which generally works but every few weeks or so turns into old Yellow and spurts all over him and his clothing should just stay home permanently?

Of course he should StUmbrage as should my dd and the rest of us with any difficulties that might interfere with folk discovering their independence or having to deal with the nasty realisation that disability doesn't just affect the elderly or just for those poor souls who want to do a bit of shopping and be able to use a bigger loo so that they can keep an eye on their shopping. If we all stay home then it can be like those lovely Victorian times when we don't have to face reality at all, 'those people' can be locked up so that the rest of society don't need to be confronted with it. We are not maximising the greatest happiness by our presence, ergo, we are morally wrong. Gotta love a bit of Bentham!

We would never mind waiting for someone to use a disabled toilet if they are disabled. we wouldn't judge people who don't "look" disabled either.
but I would judge a person who was just using it so thier little darling could play
i do think there are some very goady people on here.
I hope they are.....cos if not that means that they are really nasty/

More than once I ended up with a baby needing a shitty nappy changed plus a toddler simultaneously clamouring for the toilet. It left me with little option at the time.

Why? When I was in that situation it was toddler on the loo first, then baby's nappy. No need to use disabled facilities.

Bishop off topic, but have you come across these www.barbarabus.com guys for affordable WAV use? Might be of use to you

Thanks Adara but we have a regular motability - the kids can transfer

(I just avoid driving in central London unless dedicated parking can be booked)

A lot of loos are actually accessible now; not just disabled. When I was living in Cornwall there were lots of toilets with the wheelchair sign on and the baby change sign, because space was right. Costa in Hayle, for example.

I find it hard to believe people challenging others over using a disabled loo even if they have a baby. People with hidden disabilities have children, don't they?!

I would feel very uncomfortable being asked to watch someone's baby while they went to the loo also. Just how I feel personally. And I'd find it odd because, they don't know who I am. I could be a right nutcase!

Which is fine if they have a hidden disability. The OP does not.
head desk

No bishop I know that, there's no need to be rude. I'm just saying I find it hard to believe people get challenged over use of a disabled loo, when if I put a thread on here saying 'I challenged a woman with a baby coming out of the disabled loo because she didn't look disabled', id be ripped up for arse paper.

Only on MN do you get this scenario. Bizarre. Not had a disabled parking thread for a while, I might start one.

A good solution might have been to use a regular loo OP while your DD waited with DS and the buggy. Then you could have stood outside with the door unlocked but outside the cubicle while your DD used the loo. Your DS could have been changed anywhere tbh, assuming you have one of those foldaway mat things.

I'm a bit confused at how you deduced rudeness from that post, but takes all sorts.

I've said it a fair few times on the thread so far but I DON'T challenge in person - how am I to know if a parent with a child has IBS, IBD, colitis, catheter requiring emptying (or even the child may have any of these things).

But I can and do challenge people like the OP who did wrongly use the facilities then post about wrongly using the facilities.

Wondering, why? Do you find the topics that are hurtful and frustrating for disabled people amusing? Is that why you want to start another thread? Because there's a word for that kind of poster.

No you're being rude with the whole 'head desk' thing. Just silly. Besides, I suggested how the OP could have done it differently, and now you're trying to infer that I'm a troll? You are odd.

All these disabled parking/toilet threads draw the worst out of MN. They crop up when we haven't had one for a while, and the same things get said. I swear there needs to be a sticky at the top of AIBU: 'starting a disabled parking thread? YABU.'