to think that it's unacceptable to frighten someone's DC even if you think they're a nasty bigot?

[OTheHugeManatee]

I just saw this story about protesters forcing Nigel Farage and his family out of a pub where they were having lunch.

I don't really like Farage's politics. But I support his democratic right to hold those views. AIBU to think hounding him and frightening his DC during a family lunch is unacceptable, illiberal and frankly nasty, whatever you think of the things he says?

Yes, Hully. Marine le Pen also gets to eat her coq au vin in peace when at a private lunch, even if she is spouting vile racist views.

By all means disagree with her views in her public life but no-one should get to interrupt her meal. The same goes for (say) Abu Hamza: if he wants to hold vile anti-western hatred and pro-terrorist views, or indeed to spout them at a private meal, among friends, then I don't have a right to disrupt him. I have every right to challenge the views of either of these individuals in their public political activity, or to challenge how he behaves based on those views, but we shouldn't get to harass anyone just for holding an opinion, no matter how abhorrent we believe that opinion to be.

OTheHuge Try reading the links, then you will see that the children were not there.

That said, I'd rather have this discussion based on what these protesters actually did rather than what Farage says they did, as they seem to be two separate things.

Yep!

Sinister

I was answering Saucy's somewhat histrionic He was chased around by a bloke dressed up as gay donkey- not machine gunned to death. rhetoric.

As you know.

"Because his views aren't that abhorrent. They just aren't"

They just are, actually!

dawndonna I read that Guardian article, written by someone who thought the protest was lovely. The article doesn't mention children.

It doesn't say they weren't there, just doesn't mention anything about them. Every other news piece about the event does mention children. On balance, I'm going to carry on entertaining the possibility that his family was there.

And even if his kids weren't there, and he was just having lunch with his wife, my point still stands. It's unacceptable to harass people during their private life, simply for holding opinions you dislike. During their public life, fine; at a lunch with friends and family, absolutely not. To argue otherwise is to permit the encroachment of a moral authoritarianism that I find profoundly oppressive.

You're the one who brought the Charlie Hebdo massacre into it Arsenic.

As you know.

But ArcheryAnnie surely a pub is Farage's 'place of work'? He certainly seems to spend more time in pubs than at the European Parliament. He also looks dressed for work rather than Sunday lunch with his family, it's almost as if he thought something might happen and he might be all over the news

No Saucy I mentioned Je suis Charlie memes.

Now, why wouldn't it mention that his children were there? Shall we think about that, is it, do you think that maybe they were there, and they were enjoying the entertainment, is it, do you think, that they were there and fine, or is it because they weren't there.
What is it with this fucking Farage adoration, he says something and everyone believes it.

So the children definitely weren't there and the protestors KNEW that in advance?

"simply for holding opinions you dislike."

How about, Simply for holding, espousing and encouraging views and actions that are racist, divisive and evil.

In order for evil to triumph, it is necessary only for good women to do nothing.

It's actually quite a good womanly view: Let them eat their lunch in peace!!

Actually, vindscreenviper, you have a point there.

Anyone can have opinions.

World of difference between having opinions and forming a political party that stands in the public encouraging racist views.

Which one?
The one about him always being in a pub or the one about him going out for lunch dressed up for a photo-op?

i bet if he was somewhere with his children and there was an adoring photo of them having wonderful family life he'd not complain he had been 'intruded upon'.

If you're canvassing, for these few weeks, you're in the public eye. So don't expose your children. Don't go out in public as a family. Go round someone's house, you've got enough rich mates that could do you a lunch.

Yeah, I'm sure Martyn Heale, Thanet UKIP party chairman and ex National Front member would be pleased to host him a lunch!

Farage is probably trying to keep his own constituency staff at arm's length ATM. Give them a few weeks or months and they'll implode. The Thanet outfit are beyond satire.

"that people can be called to account for how they behave based on their opinions, but that simply holding an opinion cannot and must not be punished."

But he has acted on his opinion. He's formed a bloody political party based on his opinion.

Because I am deeply cynical, I wonder if given that the protest was fairly widely publicised - at least locally - Farage knew they'd be there when choosing his lunch spot.

I live nearby and there are many, many lovely pubs he could have chosen that wouldn't have been directly opposite the one where the protest was happening. It just all seems a bit conveniently inconvenient for him, if you know what I mean...

People here really don't see the difference between challenging someone who is out canvassing and interrupting someone having Sunday lunch with family members?

And Hully I completely agree that racism is bad. But I don't believe it is right or beneficial to anyone - including those who suffer as a result of racism - to harass individuals simply for holding those opinions. Someone who bullies, attacks or otherwise harms people for being a particular ethnicity? Sure, punish them according to the law. Someone who we just suspect of racist thoughts? They are welcome to those thoughts.

Can't you see that once we see some opinions as inherently punishable, we open up the possibility of incredibly oppressive measures. Think of any historical context where people could be held to account for opinions rather than actions, and you've got a pretty disturbing list. Things like Soviet show trials, the Spanish Inquisition, McCarthyism to name but a few.

I know there is no comparison between Farage being pestered in a pub and the Spanish Inquisition, before anyone remarks on that. Of course there isn't. But the principle still stands. We can't start eroding individuals' rights to hold whatever opinions they want free of censure, or we're on a slippery slope to somewhere quite worrying.

I guess that this little stunt will ensure that Farage is granted the publicly funded police protection he asked for last month.
So it's a win for him, he will no longer have to pay a private firm and the charmers at Britain First might stop popping up on social media with their offers to provide security guards for him.

I think we are on a slippery slope to somewhere more than quite worrying with the rise of Farage and his ilk. Far more concerned about that than his roast.

And while I see your point from an intellectual, theoretical viewpoint, I don't agree in practice.

Awful things happen because people allow them to. History shows us marching over the corpses of those murdered by the views, opinions and actions of those that were challenged politely, but not stopped.

In my advanced years, I'd rather stop them.

People with nice loving views don't tend to get shouted at over lunch.

oh my fucking word, this thread is hysterical.

Who honestly gives a fuck that Farage had a pub lunch disturbed by some gay donkeys and cabaret performers.