to think that it's unacceptable to frighten someone's DC even if you think they're a nasty bigot?

[OTheHugeManatee]

I just saw this story about protesters forcing Nigel Farage and his family out of a pub where they were having lunch.

I don't really like Farage's politics. But I support his democratic right to hold those views. AIBU to think hounding him and frightening his DC during a family lunch is unacceptable, illiberal and frankly nasty, whatever you think of the things he says?

Nigel Farage?

He was certainly still huffy about it on NW News last night. Before saying that women watch the family money carefully and so don't want to go into politics because they're happier at home.

Doesn't free speech have to work both ways, though? The university I did my undergraduate degree at always has animals rights protesters (with very graphic images) protesting outside graduations. When going in and out of the graduation building every single graduand - the majority of whom had never worked in the labs to which these protesters objected - walked past them. They chanted slogans etc. They were 'invading' a celebration of academic success which every graduand there had worked hard for. Personally I found their presence quite upsetting and it did slightly mar the day for me. However, they were outside the building, so in a public space, and had every right to protest in that space. When you're out in the world you have a right to expect your personal safety will not be threatened but there is nothing to stop people around you expressing their views.

The protesters who upset Farage were customers of the pub just as he was, and the Guardian article indicates that the landlord, whose property it was, did not make any moves to move them on - as would be his right. As such, both Farage and the protesters were equally entitled to be in that building.

I think the jumping on the car thing was totally out of order, but I don't see the problem with them being in a pub and protesting peacefully, which it seems was what the majority of people there were doing - and indeed the main events seemed to have taken place in a private function room.

The policies that Farage supports would have an incredible impact on people's actual personal, private lives. He has a right to espouse those views without coming to physical harm but when he is in public others also have a right to express their disapproval of his views. For me free speech means you have the right to express your views but not that you have a right to avoid any consequences of that.

The policies that Farage supports would have an incredible impact on people's actual personal, private lives. He has a right to espouse those views without coming to physical harm but when he is in public others also have a right to express their disapproval of his views.

You could say the same about IDS, Cameron et al. The harm they are already causing is real. Think of sanctions etc and people dying as a result.

But are we really saying that pantomime animals chasing our politicians on the weekend is the way ahead?

"But are we really saying that pantomime animals chasing our politicians on the weekend is the way ahead?"

Well, every election someone seems to send a chicken to follow someone else around because they won't participate in the right debate or whatever, so... maybe? Not sure if the chickens knock off for Sunday lunch.

Given the level of political discourse in this country, pantomime animals are probably an intellectual leap forward TBH. I blame the Mail

It's just one of them.

Personally I'd have them taken out and shot.

Pour encourager les autres, Hully?

But seriously, the "pantomime animals" represented different aspects of Farage's offensive policies. At least those people did something. Something far more effective than hand-wringing and pleading for polite discourse while the Farages run riot.

According to the Guardian piece Hackmum linked to, not everyone at the gay donkey party went over to confront Nigel Farage.

But some did, peaceably in a silly conga, and out of that group some of them jumped on the car. Presumably alcohol had been taken. That's not an excuse, just an explanation.

The writer ended with a plea for people engaged in protest not to hand a PR victory to their opponents on a plate.

He's right. I've been on peaceable protests were a minority of people have forced a confrontation out of giddiness, drunkenness or because they wanted a ruck all along and used the rest of us saps as human shields for their behaviour.

I remember an industrial dispute where the SWP suddenly turned up on our picket line to agitate. It was before the internet so fuck knows how they heard about our little dispute. Jungle drums. Luckily the larger members of our union persuaded them to leave.

Because of recent news, I sometimes wonder whether they were genuine members of the SWP or deep cover police and MI5 officers hell-bent on discrediting us and keeping the streets safe for decent people.

Probably not, I doubt our piddling dispute was that much of a threat to the Establishment and I'm quite sure there are more than enough genuine headbangers to go round discrediting legitimate protests.

All in all, the story has more holes than a doily.

every election someone seems to send a chicken to follow someone else around because they won't participate in the right debate or whatever

That's the Daily Mirror BoulevardofBrokenSleep.

The Sun's interventions are usually wittier. I admire the invention if not the political sentiment.

But I support the principle that political figures should be embarrassed in public.

It can go well for them - John Prescott and the punch and now Nigel Farage and his daughters who may or may not have been cowering in a cupboard under the stairs when he and his wife drove off.

Personally I'd have them taken out and shot.

I knew you were reasonable really

But seriously, the "pantomime animals" represented different aspects of Farage's offensive policies.

I did set off on an internet voyage to discover how the gayness of the donkey had been indicated. But then I had a word with myself.

Prescott also came off well at the Brits when he was showered with ice water by the tosser Danbert Nobacon from Chumbawamba.

He shouldn't have done, he's a pompous fool. But he was protecting his lady wife and her bouffant hair from an over-excited anarchist idiot.

Prescott and Farage are very similar in many ways and agitators should beware of tangling with them.

The colourful array of people representing the groups that Farage has criticised were in one pub. This was widely advertised and they were welcomed in. Farage, dressed appropriately for a photo shoot arrived at the pub over the road. What a coincidence .

When word spread, the lactating mothers, the gay donkey and the Mexican band did a conga through the other pub.

No one saw his children, if they were there he left them behind.

The only bad thing was the person on his car. That was wrong.

The rest of it...brilliant. Free speech does not mean you cannot be called out and challenged on your views.

You could say the same about IDS, Cameron et al. The harm they are already causing is real. Think of sanctions etc and people dying as a result.

But are we really saying that pantomime animals chasing our politicians on the weekend is the way ahead?

Yes, I think I am saying that and if I had a Bernie Clifton style bird I'd happily chase IDS and Scameron down the street.

SinisterBuggyMonth That must have shown them...

I always think it's odd that people who really want to avoid the press seem to manage it without much difficulty.

Kent is peppered with lovely country pubs. Farage could have taken his family to any one of those. And he wouldn't have been disturbed by anyone. All very photo opportunity.

Something far more effective than hand-wringing and pleading for polite discourse while the Farages run riot.

My position is not one of hand-wringing. I think the creeping acceptance of this idea, that the moral majority can and should dictate what opinions people are permitted to hold in private, as well as act on in public, is every bit as much of a threat to civilised society as Farage-style politics of petty-racist nostalgia.

I was mulling this discussion over earlier today and remembered an observation Trevor Phillips made around that programme about race that he broadcast the other night. It was something to the effect that his belief as head of the CRE had been that if you prevented people from voicing unpleasant prejudices, eventually they would die out; but that he had realised this wasn't the case and in fact the result had been - in his words - an 'ugly new doctrine'. In other words, preventing people from articulating racist viewpoints doesn't do anything to eradicate racism and can in fact have the opposite effect.

People behave as though if only Farage could be made to shut up, the country would in some indefinable way become a nicer place. I disagree. Preventing Farage from having his say isn't actually going to make our country any less racist than it currently is; it will just prevent racists from articulating their racism. And the more impassioned and zealous the attempts to silence him and his like, the more these attempts contribute to a sense of grievance by those who feel the social censure they receive for their opinions actually makes them the oppressed. And this all fuels exactly the kinds of xenophobic populist movements - Golden Dawn, Pegida, AfD, Front National, UKIP etc etc etc that are currently popping up all over Europe.

I wonder how many of the people defending the actions have given any thought for the other people in the pub and their families.

Sunday lunch. A treat out. Relaxing. Ruined by protestors.

Protest is fine. But don't involve and ruin things for innocent people.

branleuse

Who honestly gives a fuck that Farage had a pub lunch disturbed by some gay donkeys and cabaret performers

I give a fuck that the other people and families were disturbed. Do you give a fuck about them or not?

If you think a conga line of people in fancy dress would ruin a sunday pub lunch, Orlando, it's lucky you don't live in an area where morris dancing is rife...!

Preventing Farage from having his say isn't actually going to make our country any less racist than it currently is;

But - these people weren't trying to "silence" him - they were expressing their own, contrary view. They have just as much right to express that view as Farage has to express his.

Orlando - that's an issue for the landlord, isn't it? Indications are that he was fine with the event going on. Also, to return to my point about protesters outside university graduations - they had the potential to 'ruin' something that was more than a treat for the people involved. But... they had every right to be there, expressing their views, given that they were in a public space and were not being violent or aggressive.

R.e. whether IDS et al should be followed around by pantomime horses too - not specifically, no! But I don't think they should be at all insulated against people expressing (in a non-violent fashion) their opposition to their views. It's easy to feel incredibly powerless against the potential for politics to shape your life, and the right to express your (probably ultimately futile) protest against those politics is a right that I think is really important to maintain.

This is not a small protest.
Quite intimidating

That's funny OrlandoWoolf!

Well, I got my titters out

Orlando

They hired a private function room. They are sitting around in fancy dress watching something happening at the front of the room. In the photo you provide they hardly look like an intimidating gang. At worst, they probably made the pub a bit noisy / hectic. A group of guys watching the rugby would probably be equally 'disruptive' to other patrons!

So - when they realised Farage was in the other pub, what did they do?

They left their function room and went to find him. I bet the people in that pub weren't happy.

Unless the news reports are missing something out, the landlord of the other pub didn't call the police (which, if he had a ton of annoyed patrons, he may well have done). Once again, the reports indicate that apart from the car-climbing incident, these people didn't do anything threatening or violent. Doing a conga in and out a pub is no more disruptive than many things that happen in pubs.

I'd be interested to read a report with the POV of people not involved in the protest.