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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that it's unacceptable to frighten someone's DC even if you think they're a nasty bigot?

295 replies

OTheHugeManatee · 23/03/2015 12:20

I just saw this story about protesters forcing Nigel Farage and his family out of a pub where they were having lunch.

I don't really like Farage's politics. But I support his democratic right to hold those views. AIBU to think hounding him and frightening his DC during a family lunch is unacceptable, illiberal and frankly nasty, whatever you think of the things he says?

OP posts:
FuckinArsenic · 25/03/2015 17:35

None of it was considered ladylike. That's not the issue.

The divide between the suffragists' less confrontational approach and the suffragettes' direct action isn't where I'd draw the line of what's reasonable myself. Plenty of 'direct action' doesn't intrude into family life and is more effective for targeting public space, political gatherings, august institutions etc.

Didn't several suffragettes lock themselves in HoC broom cupboards? Or have I imagined that?

Hullygully · 25/03/2015 17:53

They were looking for cleaning materials. Everyone knows that.

FuckinArsenic · 25/03/2015 18:01

So they were ladylike sometimes then? Grin

Hullygully · 25/03/2015 18:10

Their wombs got the better of them

They couldn't deny the Call of the Uterus

FuckinArsenic · 25/03/2015 18:16
Smile
TheVolatileMolatov · 25/03/2015 18:47

So is Isis just an extreme of direct action?

If the BNP resort to similar direct action targeting Natalie Bennett will that be seen as a bit of grassroots campaigning to effect political change?

Suffragettes committed arson, laid bombs, destroyed important works of art - would UKIP supporters who did that to try and frighten the government into stopping immigration be justified?

OTheHugeManatee · 25/03/2015 19:12

Are you seriously comparing shutting down Farage's with achieving suffrage for women?

Seriously, aside from some quite grotesque and self-righteous hyperbole you are really giving this man far more power than he merits. Not to mention fanning the flames of exactly the kind of populism that lets his silly rhetoric flourish.

In the words of a PM you no doubt loathe, calm down dear Grin

OP posts:
JanineStHubbins · 25/03/2015 19:14

So is Isis just an extreme of direct action?

If the BNP resort to similar direct action targeting Natalie Bennett will that be seen as a bit of grassroots campaigning to effect political change?

Suffragettes committed arson, laid bombs, destroyed important works of art - would UKIP supporters who did that to try and frighten the government into stopping immigration be justified?

There was a big historical debate about this some time ago. Some academic who wanted to create a stir likened the suffragette campaign to that of Al Qaeda. Most other historians thought this was arrant nonsense, pointing out, for instance, that suffragettes had no other avenues open to them other than direct action. BNP supporters and UKIP supporters do - the ballot.

Hullygully · 25/03/2015 19:26

Protest with laudable aims is protest with laudable aims, manatee

Hullygully · 25/03/2015 19:26

And yy Janine

OrlandoWoolf · 25/03/2015 20:00

So what direct action would people support against UKIP?

Throwing stones at his house?

Putting crap through his letter box?

Flour bombing him when he's having a walk with his family?

What action would you condemn and what actions do you support?

It's clear on this thread that some people approve of this action and some don't.

It's raised awareness of what he's said - but it's also brought him sympathy.

Where do you draw the line on appropriate direct action? I am sure these are questions that every activist has asked and been asked in the past. What direct action and protest is going to be effective and draw sympathy and support for your cause? What action is going to reduce sympathy?

frazzledmama · 25/03/2015 21:19

The worst thing that could happen to these kids has probably already happened....their gene pool....

frazzledmama · 25/03/2015 21:22

I would condemn any activity that gives him the oxygen of publicity. Eg, that's any activity. But 'his cause' is linked in with lots of things that will take precedence in politics in the short term - namely Britain's disengagement (both emotional and practical) from the EU.

Italiangreyhound · 25/03/2015 23:49

Totally unacceptable to chase him from a pub and also probably counter producive.

TheNewStatesman · 26/03/2015 02:23

I thought that women eventually won the vote primarily because of women's role in WWI, not because of the really extreme suffragette tactics? I know that some historians are of the opinion that the dangerous/violent stuff may well have delayed female suffrage rather than helped.

ComposHatComesBack · 26/03/2015 12:13

New you're right that the vote wasn't won by the tactics of the militant suffragettes and their role in the movement is hugely over-stated. Probably because getting trampled by a horse is more dramatic than 50 odd years of lobbying and political campaigning and building alliances with sympathetic male MPs that actually won women the vote.

The principle of female suffrage had largely been conceded by the outbreak of the first world war and some women had been eligible to vote in local elections since the 1860s and married women from the 1890s.

Hullygully · 26/03/2015 12:48

It has been much debated. Personally, I am not surprised the role of the suffragettes has been squashed by history. Who wants to give credit to uppity women or indeed uppity anyone. However, there are also the views as below:

I hope the more old-fashioned suffragists will stand by them. In my opinion, far from having injured the movement, [the Suffragettes] have done more during the last 12 months to bring it within the region of practical politics than we have been able to accomplish in the same number of years.
Mrs Millicent Fawcett, leader of the NUWSS, writing in 1906. (suffragist)

By what means, but screaming, knocking, and rioting, did men themselves ever gain what they were pleased to call their rights?
Daily Mirror, 24 October 1906
The Daily News said: ‘No class has ever got the vote except at the risk of something like revolution’.

While there are marked differences of opinion about the value of militancy to the movement, there is a fair measure of agreement that it was positively helpful in its early days. The militants kept the movement in the public eye and much of the credit must be given to them for Parliament dealing seriously with the question from 1910 onwards. After November 1911 the position is much more doubtful. Militancy was becoming more extreme and strong antagonism was being aroused. The public could hardly be expected to approve of arson. The policy [of law-breaking] was likely to be effective so long as it was looked upon as a political protest. If, however, militant activities were put down to hysteria and fanaticism, they largely defeated their own object and gave ammunition to those who contended that women were unfit to have the vote.
Viewing the militant movement from the second half of the twentieth century, it is difficult to argue that violence does not ‘pay off’. [The history of independence of the colonies, and Civil Rights campaigns in the USA shows that violence can succeed.] It may be that suffragette violence after 1912 fell between two stools, being inadequate to force the government but sufficiently destructive to antagonise public opinion. This writer [i.e. Constance Rover] is of the opinion that, as the events turned out, militant tactics helped the women's suffrage movement until 1912, but after that date were harmful. This does not mean that militancy was necessarily a foolish policy. With hindsight, one can conclude that militancy failed in the last two years before the war, but with the experience of rebellion we have had since, one cannot conclude that militant tactics are an unsuccessful means of obtaining an objective such as enfranchisement...
There remains the question whether the sacrifices made by so many of the suffragettes were worth while… It may be contended that it was necessary for women to show that they were prepared to suffer for their cause and that it did not matter if there were mistakes in tactics, so long as it was proved that they were willing to make sacrifices. It is difficult to form a judgement on this, but the sacrifices made in the last two years before the war seemed to have been unduly heavy.
In spite of their mistakes, the militants revitalised the women’s suffrage movement. Something more than the traditional constitutional methods was needed. Believing their cause to be just, it is no wonder that many supported Emily Wilding Davison’s motto: ‘Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God’.
Constance Rover: Women's Suffrage and Party Politics (1967

senrensareta · 27/03/2015 12:22

I'm with OTheHugeManatee on this one. Freedom of speech applies to all whether we dislike what they say or not. How we deal with racism, disablism and other hatred should be to expose it to light and reason, not to censor or intimidate.

I find it astounding that some posters on here who we all associate normally with the promotion of equality and tolerance seem to be justifying this shameful behaviour.

Hully there is no doubt that civil disobedience and militancy can play a part in changing society but, surely, that is when it is targeted against the ruling society/powers that be, etc. Farage is not in power so behaviour like this is, in my view, not justifiable and is counter-productive behaviour by idiots who want to suppress viewpoints other than their own

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/03/2015 12:33

Very late to this.

He knew the press would be there.

Shane for the kids but shame for all the Polish families who are harassed daily due to certain branch of UKIP supporters too.

Hullygully · 27/03/2015 17:54

As I said many, many posts ago, we shall have to agree to differ.

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