To think we have lost sight of what "thin" looks like as much as what "fat" looks like

[marmitenot]

Hi
My daughter is recovering (well) from anorexia. At her worst she was on the 3rd centile for weight for her height and age. The terrifying thing is that she did not look any different to many girls in her year at school and certainly nowhere near as skinny as many women/teens in the public eye. As parents we had no idea that she was dangerously underweight as she didn't look different to many of her peers.

There has been a lot of publicity of how society's perception of what is overweight has changed. Aibu to think that the same has happened with the perception of what is underweight is.

My daughter is now in the healthy weight range with a bit more to go, but out of danger and heading in the right direction.

I think that we focus too much on weight rather than diet (as in the food eaten not weight loss measures) ,exercise, general health and attitudes towards foid

I am overweight but I eat well and do more exercise than a lot of my "healthy" weight friends.

I'm glad dd it's getting better, what a horrible time I think in the main yabu though because it's not that straightforward.....

• Build affects bmi, so if you are slight you will be lighter, probably your dd isn't built like that
• Puberty has a massive effect on weight percentiles at her age, so I imagine yes an average to tall girl who has gone through puberty should not be third centile.
• I am constantly told I am skinny even though I'm 5'10 and 10st4ish/ size 10. I am definitely not underweight!
• I think some girls have always been very very thin, I remember them from my school days.

I think that's a good point about being well nourished. Body types do vary but 'healthy' means taking in the nutrients you need, not being obsessed or controlled by your eating and being active. On that basis overweight and underweight people will all do fine. Difference is the overweight will be condemned whilst the underweight are lauded and that does nobody any favours. Our culture definitely glorifies being thin. Remember 'a woman can never be too rich or too thin'. Well they can be actually and it would be helpful if we all acknowledged that. I have two teens atm and another younger girl. Eating disorders scare me tbh. It's very much an issue in their peer groups.

Agree sirzy . We really need to focus on health and fitness, rather than size and appearance. However that's a really difficult message to get across to a lot of teenagers, especially girls.
Regarding role models, I can remember watching Olivia Newton John in Grease. We all thought she looked tiny (and fantastic) in her black outfit at the end of the film, but I don't think any of us felt any pressure to emulate her.

yes absolutely a woman can be too thin .

Amanda Holden is not wasting away fgs!!! If you think that you definitely need to re-look at what you think is a healthy weight.

I don't think so. Being curvaceous is now becoming the "in" look, if you see it everywhere when you browse social media sites such as Instagram etc. Even popular young role models such as Kylie Jenner etc. (who has grown herself a small behind in recent months it seems) being slim with round hips/bottom is what people now seem to aspire to. I don't know any teens who see being deadly skinny as something they are driven towards achieving.

That said people will always suffer from body image issues no matter what society says.

I also think in relation to the health/ fitness there is little real evidence that being overweight (as in bmi 25-30) is even bad for you.

We can all be too thin and too fat.

We may be fine nutritionally but being very overweight/underweight can cause many other health problems.

I agree with sirzy we should be looking at more at how well nourished and person is and the volume of exercise they do rather than weight. Weight is only one indicator of an unhealthy lifestyle. To answer the op I think we've lost sight of what is dangerously underweight when looking at celebrities but not so much in real life.

When I was a teenager and into my mid twenties I had a nesting disorder, I got very thin quickly and although my GP was concerned and supportive I had lots of positive comments from people I didn't know. I received a lot of mixed messages. I was seriously under weight for a while and while the medical profession was trying to 'put me right' I had friends and strangers who claimed to be jealous of my weight/size.

Bizarrely twenty years later and a healthy size ten with a penchant for cake I get criticised by women for being too thin. In my office I hear comments, disguised as jokes, about having a girls figure rather than a woman's and feigned surprise that I managed to breastfed two babies with my 'small chest'.

I wouldn't comment of their larger frames so am at a loss as to understand how they think it's ok to comment on mine. I usually change the subject, I have picked them in on it a few times but prefer not to cause an atmosphere at work.

I hear women putting each other down all the time, reading magazines about clebs who have either got too thin or too fat, we are our own worst critics.

Am interested in which celebrities people think are underweight.
The celebrities mentioned so far are all healthy looking to me.

If I think back to my school days I think there was less variation - fewer girls at the extremes. Most of us were sort of average/middling size within a range. In a year of nearly 100 girls there would be a tiny number standing out as very overweight, or very small. It seems that the range has moved out at both ends - fewer in the middle average sizes, and more in the extremes of over or under weight.

You used to get a group of 10 friends with maybe one plump one and one skinny one. Now I see groups of girls out and they are nearly all at either extreme and the unusual ones are average sized.

Our whole attitude to food/size/excercise/health is fucked up these days. We never even thought about it. Teenagers now obsess about it. And the obsession is making things worse.

Me too mamapants and in particular the 'dangerously underweight' celebs?

Amanda Holden isn't 'wasting away', she is slim. I would say she has a small frame.
I'm not too keen on the 'curvaceous look' personally, as it seems to involve butt implants and waist training (wearing corsets to reduce the waist).

I agree that we have lost sight of what's 'normal' because overweight is now our normal.

I am a size 6-8, 8 stone, 5ft 4. I eat what I like in large portions. I was sporty as a teenager so maybe that's why I "defy science" but I don't exercise these days, although I'm not scared of walking places. When I've done a LOT of running as an adult it makes a difference of about 3 pounds. I'm bigger than my mum was after she had had 3 children. I have none.

I think slim is what is healthy, and what should be "normal". Skinny is probably normal for most teenagers, as they've stretched.

If sometime is naturally heavier built with bigger bones then they might look like the rest of their peers of they were very unhealthily anorexic.

But I think it's ridiculous to say that the majority of slim, healthy people are dangerously anorexic.

I'm a bit confused by your post, the point you are making seems to prove the opposite from that which you intend.

Centiles are just relative, they measure one person's stats against another's, they are not an objective measure. As we all get fatter, the 50% centile will just move further into the 'obese' category.

If your Daughter was on the 3rd Centile, all that means is that 97% of people have a higher BMI than she does. We already know that 2 out of 3 people in the UK are either overweight or obese, so anybody of a normal weight will by definition fall on or below the 33rd centile.

Admittedly 3rd centile is pretty low (bottom 10% of the 'normal' category) but this type of measurement is really misleading. It's just a paraphrasing of the argument that 'the average dress size in the UK is a 16' - all this tells you is that the average person (woman) in the UK is obese, not that it is ok to be a size 16.

Someone*

The bottom line is that a BMI of over 25 is likely to be unhealthy, as is one below 18.5. Not definitely, but probably.

How an individual's BMI compares to other people's is irrelevant, it is how is compares to these objective measurements that matters.

I think that with celebs they have to control their weight carefully, as a result they sometimes tip over into too thin. Kiera Knightly is one that comes to mind, but to be fair she looks healthy now. There was a time when she definitely didn't though.

Very well put Battery.

I tried to word a similar post but I got all confused and waffly to ended up deleting instead of hitting 'post message' but I think you've nailed it

Op, I agree with you. 'Curvy' celebrities are usually a size 10 and 'plus size' models are typically a size 12 (and 6 feet tall!).

We need to focus on being healthy rather than size as I suspect many skinny teens are storing up osteoporosis for their future by constantly dieting and not exercising enough. Being very underweight is every bit as bad as being overweight and I blame the fashion industry for idealising such an unrealistic body shape for women.

I hope your DD continues to recover well.

I think there is some truth in what the op says, though clearly obesity is a much bigger societal problem. When I think back to the original supermodels, the epitome of beauty, who commanded huge fees: Cindy Crawford, Naomi Campbell, Claudia schiffer etc, they were much more Amazonian looking than modern modes typically are. That changed with Kate Moss - the "superwaif" as she was called at the time - who wouldn't/doesn't look out of place on a modern catwalk.

That said, I have a v skinny 12yo. She hasn't yet entered puberty really so her shape will change in the next few years, but she is perfectly healthy despot being 5ftish and under 6 stone ish. So some girls are intended to be naturally thinner than others.

I'm glad your daughter is well, op, and hope she continues in her recovery.

An explanation of how the centiles work
Of 100 15 year old girls with the same height as my daughter 3 would be expected to be her weight.

Being at that weight for a 15 year old whether because they are naturally that weight or whether they are restricting their food intakes is likely to have health implications eg no periods and the possibility for weakened bones.

In my daughters class my daughter looked no different to many of her peers. Ie there are many more than the expected 3%

What is her BMI?