To think we have lost sight of what "thin" looks like as much as what "fat" looks like

[marmitenot]

Hi
My daughter is recovering (well) from anorexia. At her worst she was on the 3rd centile for weight for her height and age. The terrifying thing is that she did not look any different to many girls in her year at school and certainly nowhere near as skinny as many women/teens in the public eye. As parents we had no idea that she was dangerously underweight as she didn't look different to many of her peers.

There has been a lot of publicity of how society's perception of what is overweight has changed. Aibu to think that the same has happened with the perception of what is underweight is.

My daughter is now in the healthy weight range with a bit more to go, but out of danger and heading in the right direction.

On the days when I only eat once, that is not disordered, it is planned

Ordered/planned is not necessarily the same as healthy.

I don't understand what you're saying. You're suggesting that statistics indicate that your daughter is thinner than 97% of girls her age but then state that a third of the girls are as thin as your daughter? That isn't possible!

Also, 15 year olds do not have adult bodies, hence they have a different scale for under 18s. Being 15 with a BMI of 16 is not as seriously as being 25 with a BMI of 16, however you dress it up.

Also, just had a look at the NHS BMI calculator and 3rd centile is right at the bottom of healthy. It's certainly not heart failure level of AN.

Eila most 15 year old girls do have adult bodies.

How do you define an 'adult body'?

Is it a body that's stopped growing and developing?

If so, I don't know any 15yr olds who didn't grow/develop a bit more before they turned 16/17/18.

They are not finished developing at that age, although they probably have reached their adult height. Children categorically do not need to weigh the same at 15 as a fully grown adult, hence the adjusted scales.

The nhs bmi website is very interesting. I have actually been in touch with the health professionals responsible for that calculator and they recognise that the result indicated for a girl of my daughters age and height may be misleading and result in people think that they are at a healthy weight when in fact they are seriously underweight. My own daughter used that website as justification of her weight the day before our appointment with the eating disorder unit.

I can only reiterate than when my daughter was seen with a bmi of 16 by eating disorder specialists we were told that she was severely underweight with greatly increased risk of significant health problems. She had significantly impaired cognitive function and no periods. She had regular heart tests (ecg's?) until she had put on weight.

My daughter is being treating in a centre of excellence for eating disorders.

Official NHS and Dept of Health information is to use charts for children aged 2-18, e.g. RoyalCollegeDoc

For both kids and adults, the healthy weight depends on frame size and (more for men) % muscle. These charts show the wide ranges for adult females:

These are wide population ranges. For an individual assessment, you need a doctor

My BMI had always been low 16-17 normally. Having had a variety of tests my heart and bones are fine and I am just naturally slim.

However my son has a medical condition - and is very malnourished as a result. He has fallen off the centile charts and when well hoovers around the 0.4-2nd centile. His weight is closely monitored and every weight loss is analysed.

I'll be honest when DS is going through a rough patch he looks fragile, almost breakable and he looks miles worse than the naturally slim children in his class.

There is a difference between being naturally slim, unnaturally slim and malnourished (normally with a distended stomach). However the way society is going I don't believe that people are generally too slim, and there are regular reports encouraging parents to make sure children are eating healthy and getting enough exercise. That would suggest that there isn't really a problem with slim children. However, unhealthily bodily images can't help in your daughters case OP. I believe that the projected airbrushed images of unrealistic looking celebrities cannot be helping children with anorexia. But I don't think that any of the blame should be attributed to normally slim children, who are still in the process of growing.

Toby they don't have "adult bodies", just (usually) their height.

15 year olds tend to fill out over the next few years, and grow into their adult bodies, that's why there is a different chart and 15 year olds don't use adult BMI charts.

I have never met a single person who has the same figure they had at 15 when they were into adulthood.

As other people have said Marmite, you're focussing far too much on just weight and not enough on the effects of under eating and malnutrition.

According to this red book I've just dug out, the third percentile weight for a 15 year old is around 6.5.

This would be a perfectly healthy weight for many slight children, and even for those that were on the thin side very few would be days from death at that weight.

Is your DD very tall?

According to the NHS BMI calculator I would be a healthy weight at 6st 11lb

Fuck that and pass me the crisps.

Could people please STOP arguing with the OP about the BMI of 16. You do realise that you are effectively minimising the situation she has lived through? A situation in which her child was clearly very unwell with a condition which has significant mortality and relapse rate. This is exactly the problem with this conversation in our society. Most of us are so fucked up by body image that we can't see that a desire to be excessively thin is a negative thing. In looking at a 15 yr old you need to be thinking that they have far more in common in developmental terms with a woman of 25 than a child of 5.

Gosh no I am in no way apportioning blame to naturally slim adults and children. I hope that no one has been upset by that.

I was just worried that there has been a significant rise in underweight teenage girls due to societal pressures and that in the same way as some people do not realise they are overweight that teenagers (and their parents) are not recognising when they are underweight

Thank you northernlurker. I am only just holding it together here.

ayeamarok I can't actually get my hips and arse into some of the jeans I wore at 15, even though I was pretty much my adult height. I didn't really fill out fully till 19 or 20.

The OP is minimising it but saying that she sees a large proportion of teenage girls are underweight, as if AN is all about that, rather than a symptom of it.

I will argue my point all I want because she is wrong. Children are not adults, that's why there is a scale of age, weight and height for under 18s.

I think I generally agree with you OP.

We seem to have lost track of what is a sort of normal healthy look across the board. Average sizes have increased and we have adjusted to that, people who would have been considered a bit tubby 20 years ago are now completely normal. OTOH extreme thinness has been a reccuring theme with models over the decades.

Part of the problem here as well is that women's bodies - what is "good" changes according to fashion when these are our bodies that we live in and the aim should be that they are healthy and do what we want them to do and sure look attractive why not but how can it be that the fundamental structure of our physiques is supposed to change with fashion - this is just ridiculous!

So really we have people who will when healthy be very slim to pretty robust, slight, muscular, tall, short, big breasted, small breasted and all the range that we can be and still be healthy. But now the "norm" is fatter and thus slenderness has become much more coveted than it was when everyone was slimmer, so when people are going around looking terribly slim, sure some of them will be natural but not all, and so nothing is said because they are hitting the most desirable thing in terms of female bodies at the moment ie slenderness.

I have been a bit taken aback at some of the girls at DD school, they look very thin to me, I put it down to my eye having gone used to larger people though, but then I think, I'm sure we didn't have so many bones sticking out when we were young.

Dunno. It's a problem though for sure. Why can't women be left alone to inhabit their bodies and aim for health and they do what you want and need, rather than these ever changing, often unhealthy, ideals.

This is really interesting because I was looking at a photograph of me in a bikini on my honeymoon 12 years ago today. At the time everybody said what a marvellous figure I had and I was thought to be a bit too slim if anything. But looking at the same photo by today's standards I looked on the plump side of slender.

Northern we're not minimising it.

OP has said that she reckons a third of 15 year old girls are so anorexic and thin they are a week off hospitalisation.

This is NOT the case and it's dangerous to suggest it is, not to mention offensive to the thousands of naturally slim, healthy women who may be reading this thread.

That doesn't take away from how frightening it would have been for OP when her daughter was unwell. It's a terrible disease, AN, and usually means the person will have a whole life of not havinga comfortable relationship with food. I hope OP's DD continues to progress well.

Totally agree with Northernlurker.
OP I would leave and hide this thread if I were you, as I suspect it is not helping with the fear and pain you must be feeling right now.

The OP said she though a third of girls in her dd's class were as thin or thinner than her. Why is that a contentious statement? I think she is making an excellent point here. We are obsessed with obesity and anybody who points out what a problem 'thin' is, is accused of being 'offensive'

The OP's child was diagnosed anorexic and dangerously ill. Noone disputes that.
However, anorexia is an eating disorder, which the vast majority of slim people don't have.
Official UK figures 2012-2013 are that 2560 cases of all ages were admitted to hospital, 90% of them female. Many more of the less advanced cases were treated in the community.
Anorexia is on the increase, but still thankfully affects only a very small % of the 60 million UK population.

I'm currently being monitored at an EDU by specialists, and they have the 'critical' level set at a BMI of 16.

I am currently 17.4 and I don't look dangerously thin because I have a slight frame anyway.

I see people who are at least 35 in the clinic who look much more dangerously thin than the younger girls, because the effects of prolonged starvation have taken their toll on their bodies for much longer.

The thing I've struggled most with is seeing other ladies who look a similar size to me and yet are being tube fed. We're not supposed to compare, but often people do talk about it, and it seems we all feel that weight and how we look doesn't always match.

Well done to your daughter OP (and you) and I hope she manages to find her 'life worth living' as we call it. Being 34 and still doing this is not something I would wish for anyone else.