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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

999 replies

startrek90 · 20/03/2015 15:32

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr )

OP posts:

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mathanxiety · 25/03/2015 19:36

Did you find that on wikipedia, Antumbra?

Your hint that it is wrong comes from the phrase 'Christian doctrine'. There is no such thing.

You seem unaware that people belonging to the largest Christian denomination do not turn to the bible for 'explanation'.

Maybe read a little history? In the meantime you might like to pull in your horns and stop embarrassing yourself.

TheCat, many Christians have been killed by atheists, hundreds of thousands in the former Soviet Union for example, and in China Christians continue to suffer persecution that may well include murder. I am sure many a priest was disemboweled or similarly mistreated by atheists over the course of the 20th century.

JanineStHubbins · 25/03/2015 19:39

Math you said:

The biggest Christian denomination in the world uses both the NT and the OT and also relies on sacred tradition.

AND

people belonging to the largest Christian denomination do not turn to the bible for 'explanation'.

Which is it?

Mehitabel6 · 25/03/2015 19:39

I think children are sensible enough to question it for themselves-or the churches would be full to overflowing on a Sunday!
Many schools, my children's for one, always put 'Christians believe' in front of statements and then the children know it isn't a fact.
I think it would be a great shame if we never had hymns-there are some really lovely ones.

Hakluyt · 25/03/2015 19:39

Gosh, you're rude, mathanxiety. I thought you didn't belive in people being rude.

Hakluyt · 25/03/2015 19:41

"Many schools, my children's for one, always put 'Christians believe' in front of statements and then the children know it isn't a fact."

Good.

But many don't.

Mehitabel6 · 25/03/2015 19:43

I will wish you all goodnight-I can't think why I have wasted so much time on this thread when I am cutting down on computer time!
My one point is-to OP -it isn't acceptable to be rude to anyone.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/03/2015 19:48

Oh, I don't disagree about the hymns - it was just an example of how perfectly nice, well-meaning people, without necessarily even thinking about it, do make statements of faith sound like fact. While some children will question it (or find Eric Idle's version and sing with gusto!), it can easily give a default impression of the 'fact' that there is a creator god.

mathanxiety · 25/03/2015 19:59

There is no contradiction there Janine. RCs do not look to the bible for explanation. That is the role of the RC church.

mathanxiety · 25/03/2015 20:00

I presume you are just being stoopid now, Hakuyt.

mathanxiety · 25/03/2015 20:02

Or maybe exercising your inalienable right to make a petty eejit out of yourself.

JanineStHubbins · 25/03/2015 20:04

All your pronouncements on this and every other thread seem to be ex cathedra mathanxiety, so I suppose I'd better take your word for it

Binkybix · 25/03/2015 20:06

Hak asked for examples and I took the first I found.

Some of which were not rude and were fact. Which you still don't admit.

An interesting question is what is rudeness? Whose definition do you take? Is it not rude if the person saying it thinks they are stating fact but they are upsetting someone? We could go around in circles

I honestly think that this sounds as if you don't think beliefs should be challenged in any context at all. I just can't agree with that - even if it upsets people. But as I've said, I don't think it should be done just for the fun of it.

Math - I agree that a few of those were rude, but not all by any means.

keepitsimple0 · 25/03/2015 20:10

many Christians have been killed by atheists, hundreds of thousands in the former Soviet Union for example, and in China Christians continue to suffer persecution that may well include murder. I am sure many a priest was disemboweled or similarly mistreated by atheists over the course of the 20th century.

atheism doesn't say anything about morals. you can be a monster and an atheist and you can be a saint and be atheist. as atheism tells you nothing about how to live, it's all consistent.

on the other hand, it follows that no one is motivated to kill by atheism (at least not properly motivated).

I'd say religion has motivated more deaths than we can count.

Binkybix · 25/03/2015 20:13

By the way Math - your writing style is so, so familiar. Are you by any chance from Kentucky?

capsium · 25/03/2015 20:18

But how can beliefs be challenged? I mean, since they are cited as beliefs and not facts. Beliefs need not be proved or disproved. What people state as fact, needs to be evidenced, conclusively, not what people state as their belief. People can change their beliefs but they still would be beliefs, just different ones.

keepitsimple0 · 25/03/2015 20:19

I think it would be a great shame if we never had hymns-there are some really lovely ones.

save it for church.

HairyHandedFucker · 25/03/2015 20:19

You are entitled to your beliefs, and everyone else is entitled to find them daft. If I believed that sprinkling glitter on my toes would prevent me from getting lost, you'd think I was ridiculous. If I believed that unicorns existed, and could fly, and talk, and rescue me from the dangers of daylight, you'd find me ridiculous. Same thing - you believe there is a god, for whom there is zero evidence. You worship him/her/it despite him/her/it being responsible for all the suffering in this world. Yeah, I call that ridiculous.

Whilst we are on the topic of atheism vs religion and morals, this is fabulously timely: www.awkwardmomentsbible.com/on-phil-robertsons-ignorance/#comment-7623.

keepitsimple0 · 25/03/2015 20:22

Beliefs need not be proved or disproved.

When someone has a belief about the world, those can be shown to be wrong. I can believe that Paris is the capital of the UK, but I'd be wrong.

Furthermore, many theists claim that their beliefs are in fact supported by evidence, and are not simply a matter of faith.

capsium · 25/03/2015 20:24

But Hairy your view, of what is ridiculous and what is not, does not change my beliefs. That would just be deferring to you, in terms of how to determine what is ridiculous, which I don't.

HairyHandedFucker · 25/03/2015 20:27

How is it not ridiculous to you? It was ridiculous to me since I was 5.

capsium · 25/03/2015 20:29

keepits but I was talking about beliefs and not facts. Facts can be proven, beliefs cannot. God can neither be proved or disproved. This is why believing in Him involves faith. There may be supporting evidence but not enough to establish certain fact since you cannot prove the spiritual, since the spiritual is immaterial.

Hakluyt · 25/03/2015 20:31

Math- I have never been rude to you or, as far as I am aware, to anyone else. Please could you extend the same courtesy?

Binkybix · 25/03/2015 20:32

Challenge beliefs as in 'I don't believe the same for x, y, z reasons.' and also challenge their validity as a reason to base decisions/policies on.

For example, using disapproval of homosexuality or citing the religious nature of marriage to oppose equal marriage. You think it? Fine, I disagree but each to their own. Use it as a reason to stop it? I will disagree with that, because from my point of view it's seeking to control other people based on an entirely made up book/rationale.

As I said, I don't go round disagreeing for the fun of it or to try to change peoples' minds - I'm just not like that.

For example I say 'God' all the time, but I try to stop myself around my very religious friend. It's my right to say it, of course, but I don't want to offend on principle.

capsium · 25/03/2015 20:38

Hairy there is not much I find ridiculous. I can see the reasoning behind lots of things believed, even when I don't hold with it myself.

capsium · 25/03/2015 20:44

Binky I don't make policy. Many Christians agree with equal marriage and have fought for it, by the way. Beliefs are not solely the preserve of the religious either. We all hold beliefs in the absence of all the facts about everything.

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