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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

999 replies

startrek90 · 20/03/2015 15:32

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr Angry )

OP posts:
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PigletJohn · 27/03/2015 20:39

Not all the Abrahamic religions worship the same god. Some of them worship a god that approves of women priests, and some worship a god that doesn't, for example. Some of the gods tolerate same-sex marriages, and some of the gods insist that homosexuals should be put to death. Some of the gods used to demand that but have now changed their minds.

mathanxiety · 27/03/2015 20:41

Oh quick, clutch the pearls...

I often get the impression that atheists talking about genocide in the OT are trying very hard to look holier than anyone else.

Evelight, I hope you will know never, ever to let your DS read anything by that monster Hans Christian Andersen, or The Brothers Grimm

Or should that be Hans Xtian Andersen?

mathanxiety · 27/03/2015 20:43

Wrong as usual, PigletJohn.

The God is the same. What individuals think he approves of varies.

Hakluyt · 27/03/2015 20:46

math- you do know the difference between the Bible and a book of fairy stories, don't you........?

mathanxiety · 27/03/2015 20:47

Yeah right whatever, SGB.

mathanxiety · 27/03/2015 20:49

Hakluyt dear, I am only thinking of the children.

BigDorrit · 27/03/2015 20:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PigletJohn · 27/03/2015 20:52

Man (and woman) creates god is his/her own image, so of course any religionist can have a god which shares his/her beliefs and prejudices.

I can't see that a god who turns into a bull, a swan, or a man is necessarily the same god, or necessarily a different one.

Evelight · 27/03/2015 20:53

@math- I can't remember a vengeful god drowning everyone except blah blah blah in the Brother Grimm or Hans xtian? Regardless, it was the only time DS had protested against violence in a story, I wonder why? Indeed, i wish he would display a similar sensitivity when it comes to wanting to play video games, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

We are surrounded by depictions of violence in our pop culture. But not all these are disturbing on similar levels.

funnyossity · 27/03/2015 20:56

I was taught the ethos of live and let live by my family who had chosen to leave their Christian church as they saw the members as hypocrites; they did keep up the class struggle for a bit longer though!

The problem of the religions is exemplified by the tale of Noah; if you are not in the religious fold you are not good enough and in this case not fit to live. I was disturbed by that as an older child.

mathanxiety · 27/03/2015 21:01

I see you are a disciple of Feuerbach, PigletJohn.

And maybe you are also a fan of the ancient Irish mythological shape shifters too?

mathanxiety · 27/03/2015 21:15

OMX, Evelight!

Your child plays video games?

(And seriously, you hang a picture of Noah's Ark on your child's wall but you can't bring yourself to type Hans 'Christian' Andersen?)

...........................
At the risk of boring everyone to tears:
7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
King James Version
8 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;
2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
15 And God spake unto Noah, saying,
16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
King James Version (KJV)

Are you sure you didn't lay on the drama a bit thick in your recounting of the story of Noah's Ark?
Did you provide sound effects?

Assuming you are still awake.

antumbra · 27/03/2015 21:19

The point being mathanxiety?

A nice cheerful tale of mass murder.

antumbra · 27/03/2015 21:20

Except it is being taught to our kids as historical fact.

Whichever way you look at it it's hideous.

Hakluyt · 27/03/2015 21:20

Math- I think she was copying you with the Xtian Anderson - irony does rather pass you by, doesn't it? Grin

Thank you for the C&P - not sure what it was for though. Did you think we didn't know the story?

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 27/03/2015 21:27

Surely context is all though, the Bible preached in a democratic country which does not allow violence, cruelty and so on, looses its impact, A bible preached in a country that does allow violence and practises it, and encourages it, it becomes dangerous.

funnyossity · 27/03/2015 21:27

Well everything bar the chosen very few was obliterated by an angry God. (It seemed deranged to me.)

"All in whose nostrils was the breath of life... died" was a horribly effective choice of words and made me think very much of the process of drowning.

Perhaps it's because I wouldn't warrant a place on any ark!

PigletJohn · 27/03/2015 21:28

No, math, your imagination is leading you into untrue beliefs again.

Neither am I a Leninist nor a follower of Robespierre, so your regurgitations are unnecessary.

Mehitabel6 · 27/03/2015 22:12

How can Noah be taught as historical fact? Confused people have so little faith in children. Did Noah have some sort of telepathy with kangaroos? Did it take them long to get there? Did he persuade them they had to go home after the flood went before they started to breed? How did he persuade the lions that the other creatures were not food? What did they eat? Etc etc - and this is taught as historical fact?! And in the ridiculous assumption it was - you have so little regard for the intelligence of your child that you think they would believe it?

Binkybix · 27/03/2015 22:14

I must have been a stupid child then because I believed it. Luckily my intelligence blossomed a bit later.

Mehitabel6 · 27/03/2015 22:16

Since we are nearly at 1000 posts I will finish by saying I think there are some very insecure people on here- they seem to have a huge worry about what their children will be told. I just teach mine to question everything- starting with me -and then trust them to think for themselves.

Mehitabel6 · 27/03/2015 22:17

Perhaps your parents just told you what to think, Piglet, rather than question.

Mehitabel6 · 27/03/2015 22:19

What did you think they ate? How did someone get them to patiently wait in twos?

Mehitabel6 · 27/03/2015 22:20

Did you believe the fairy stories too?

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