Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

[startrek90]

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr )

I don't see any of my comments as rude. Which ones in particular are rude?
I haven't launched a personal attack.

It's your bible that shows your "loving" god as genocidal- nothing that we atheists are claiming without your supporting documentation.

Tone of voice and body language says a lot. All missing on the internet and so people read what they will.
I was called rude earlier on the thread and it was just people wildly misinterpreting my posts. Had I spoken them face to face they wouldn't have been taken that way.

JackieO
Organised religion is the most evil corrupt force on the planet. Things that have been done and continue to be done in the name of religion can never be made right.
This is rude because it is not accompanied by 'imo' or followed by the instruction 'Discuss with reference to specific historical events'.
You may be speaking to someone whose experience of an organised religion directly contradicts your observation or experience or prejudice.
You may be speaking to someone who was supported by church charities or whose relatives were educated by church schools in a developing country, or sponsored through university, or fed while they were starving.

Weeder
religion is a lifestyle choice - though I accept that many years being brainwashed by your parents might leave you feeling you didn't have much choice.
This is rude because there is an implication that religious belief involves turning off the intellect, i.e. that no thinking person would choose religion as thought and faith are incompatible. It is also rude because it casts aspersions on someone's parents, whom you do not know at all.

LadyGregory
Religion 'fosters a particularly dopy brand of wishful thinking.
Using the phrase 'dopy brand of wishful thinking' is a rude and unwarranted attack on someone's belief system.
You can have little or no respect for organised religion and you may well be perfectly justified in that, given many examples from history. Having no respect for organised religion is one thing but going about telling people how little respect you have for organised religion is another thing entirely. It is rude to subject people to haranging on your pet peeves. It is also very likely boring.

CaffeLatteIceCream Fri 20-Mar-15 16:56:26
After reading your post, would it be fair to say you think people who have a religious faith (specifically a Christian sort of faith, interestingly) are stupid, infantile, over-sensitive, gullible...
If yes, then kindly learn the difference between criticism and rudeness.
There is a difference.

ShootPeppaPig
I think there's a world of difference between for example
"Muslims are dumb" (RUDE!)
And
"Aren't you worried that your instilling homophobia in your child?" (DEBATE)
I would like to hear your thoughts on the question 'Are you still beating your wife?'

CaffeLatte
How about not patronising people by pretending "none of us know the facts.
If it's any consolation, I don't want to be associated with atheists that think like you do, either. I couldn't tell those kinds of fibs, quite honestly.
Equal opportunity rudeness and offensiveness freely dispensed to all.

ILovePud
I don't lower my estimation of people when I find out they are religious but it does always surprise me when people who are educated and analytical are religious.
Patronising, much?

HairyHandedFucker
So yes. I think that's pretty stoopid.
You apparently find it so stupid you feel it needs illustrating by misspelling stupid.
The quote follows some categorical moral judgements that illustrate a feeling of moral superiority. You took the opportunity to let stoopid people know what you think of them and their stoopid beliefs.
What I do not detect here is any interest in debate.

(Your quote from Penn Jillette amply illustrates the fact that is frequently denied that there are zealous atheist proselytisers trying to save believers from their folly. So thank you for that. Also, your inclusion of the hilarious (?) take on Noah's Ark caused me to scratch my head, because it seems to me that there are many very popular children's stories loaded with death, crime, kidnapping, vengeance, false imprisonment, deceit, senseless destruction, even a suggestion of cannibalism. Children love them. There are some thinkers - Bruno Bettelheim springs to mind - who think old tales of that sort are very important to development as seen in Freudian terms.)

(It's possible to be an "evangelical" secularist- but not an evangelical atheist.
Please note that Penn Jillette statement, Hakluyt.)

HairyHandedFucker
Fri 20-Mar-15 17:36:55
And the breathtaking narcsissism of the other item you attached is duly noted. I refuse to feel bad for offending you.

The many statements in that screed that reveal ignorance of history and religion (that it is the enemy of reason and science for instance) and your sense of entitlement to offend say more about you than about people who hold a religious belief.

LeSaor
I don't trust theists because they don't inhabit the world of reality. If you ask theists if they'd kill someone if God told them to, many of them will say yes.
Just wow.
This is way beyond rude.
It is pure bigotry.

Marshy
I don't know how anyone can can be in a relationship with someone when they aren't on the same square with this
Rude to people, some on this thread, who manage to live happy lives with people who hold different religious beliefs or none at all. Saying it is incomprehensible to you puts them in the category of weird/strange/'other'.
And MaidOfStars Am I friends with religious people? Of course. Did I marry one? Fuck no.
Insert 'person of a certain ethnic origin' for 'religious people' and tell me if this isn't an ugly way of looking at other humans.

Freelanceconundrum
I do judge people who believe in god and immediately lower my expectations of their critical think and intellect. If I meet someone who is fun or interesting and then discover that they have a faith my heart sinks.
Thank you for sharing that offensive piece of rudeness.
It says a lot more about you than about those other people though.

HairyHandedFucker
"I talk to god and he talks to me". Er, really? How is this any different to someone saying they talk to unicorns, and the unicorns talk back? It makes you look utterly crazy.

Desperately, I am sorry you have a sick child. But how you can then think a loving god would make things this way is beyond the realms of common sense. No loving god would create such sickness and suffering. Why would he? If he does, he isn't very loving, is he. It is pure nonsense. And what kind of person would want to worship such a god? As such, no, I don't respect religious people - I think they are deluded. And I have concerns about the rest of their decision-making.

This^^ is beyond the fucking pale

...............................................
BTW, all of the above is in response to Hakluyt's request for three examples of people being rude here.
I got as far as HairyHandedFucker's outrageous post of Sat 21-Mar-15 16:38:00.

"Everyone does things wrong-whether you choose to call it sin or something else."

But "sin" has a specific meaning. You can't just make words mean what you want to mean! It is quite a common debating tactic used by Christians though- oh, the words have changed meaning over time. Oh, nobody belives that bit any more. Oh, it's all about interpretation. Oh, other Christians might say that but I don't. Then - You can't say that, it's Christian bashing.

Mind you I have never seen such dancing on the head of a pin about Christian privilege as I've seen this afternoon - nothing to do with us, mate, take it up with the politicians!

Breathtaking!

None of those things are rude or offensive. They are simple statements of fact.

Religious people - grow a back bone and grow up. Some people think your beliefs (that you do not own and did not invent) are fatuous, childish and nonsensical. If you think that's "rude", so what? Your feelings are not particularly important so stop expecting your fellow adults to behave as if they are.

If you are a victim of a crime because of your beliefs, report it to the police. But stop whinging and trying to shut people up just because they are saying things that you don't like hearing and playing the "rude" card to try and gag others.

If your beliefs are so precious and personal that you cannot bear to hear dissenting opinions, shut up about them then.

Antumbra -- Original sin isn't the same thing as being a sinner.

Once more the ignorance of basic tenets of Christianity on the part of its critics is revealed.

Caffe you are absolutely wrong.

All of those things are rude and offensive.

[Caffe]
Your feelings are not particularly important so stop expecting your fellow adults to behave as if they are.

This is pure narcissism.

So any criticism of religion is rude and offensive. I was rather coming to that conclusion. People of faith are allowed to be dogmatic about their beliefs. Atheists have to hedge theirs about with caveats. And the position of privilege Christiantiy holds in the UK is nothing to do with Christians.

Is that it?

*Antumbra -- Original sin isn't the same thing as being a sinner.

Once more the ignorance of basic tenets of Christianity on the part of its critics is revealed.*

Rubbish. Altering things as you go. What does being born with original mean then? Being born as a "sinful person". Same as being a sinner.

Hakluyt, I see you feel compelled to defend the rudeness. Perhaps this is because you feel you would be letting the side down if you were to admit even one incidence of offensive speech here?

I must say I am disappointed, but not at all surprised.

Math: Insert 'person of a certain ethnic origin' for 'religious people' and tell me if this isn't an ugly way of looking at other humans.
Sigh. People can't choose their ethnic origin. They CAN choose whether to stupidly follow some mythical sky dude and devote their time to him/her/it. Such a person I would not marry. We'd have nothing in common, I can't respect them. Same goes for racists, sexists, perverts etc - I chose not to marry one of those either.

I don't defend rudeness. Looking back, the "pretty stoopid" remark was silly and rude. And there was another one Mehitabel quoted that was rude too.

The others? Nah. Robust, maybe. But not rude.

The concept of original sin refers to an innate human tendency to turn from God. Sin means individual sins committed by individuals.

If by 'altering things as you go' you mean 'disagreeing with your misinformed notions', then I stand guilty as charged.

I have to say, HairyHandedFucker, on the evidence of your posts I wouldn't be able to marry someone as unintelligent as you, atheist or no.

That's me being rude. Or is it being robust? So often people who are rude hide behind excuses like 'I speak as I find' or 'I enjoy robust debate'. I've done it myself in the past, and I'm very familiar with the mechanism of denial where you know you've tried, metaphorically speaking, to knee someone in the groin, but you pretend that it's all their fault that they're hurt.

No wonder there is so much trouble in the world with such lack of kindness and consideration. People feel strongly about things, say it in the strongest language-designed to make those who disagree seem idiots-and then defend any rudeness by saying that they are just stating facts and the recipient should grow a backbone and grow up!
I think that people have a different definition of rudeness.

I also think a lot of people would fail exam questions when they can't see a difference between fact and opinion. It must be hard work explaining it to children if adults can't get it.

Christians, and all theists, and associated believers in mystical, mythological woo, should be relieved that ridicule is all they have to face

Until the first priest is disemboweled by a gang of machete-wielding atheists claiming inspiration from the writings of C. Hitchens and R. Dawkins, theist antipathy to non-believers and hypersensitivity to criticism and the opinions of others will elicit not a drop of sympathy from me.

Your belief system must rest on fragile foundations indeed, for anyone to read and then quote the rudeness of others at length.

YOUR GOD WILL PROTECT YOU

Won't He?

Original sin- Original sin, also called ancestral sin, is the Christian doctrine of humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man, stemming from Adam's rebellion in Eden. You as a christian should know that. THe bible explains it all- maybe you should take a read.

Psalm 51:5: Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin my mother conceived me.

So being "born with original sin" makes a baby what exactly if not a sinner?

"also think a lot of people would fail exam questions when they can't see a difference between fact and opinion. It must be hard work explaining it to children if adults can't get it."

But people of faith don't think of their faith as an opinion. They think of it as fact. All the available evidence points to there being no God. There is no evidence at all for their being one. So the atheist postition is based as much in fact as anything can be.

No wonder there is a problem! A faith is not a fact. How can it be without evidence? I can't see the need for evidence.
There are huge generalisations being made as if all of one faith were the same. I am a Christian I think of my faith as an opinion.

And if that isn't rude TheCatAteMyTaxReturn I can't think what is. It is a bullying statement designed to belittle -and then we are told it is our fault, that we are fragile beings!

Definition of faith

'belief that is not based on proof'

And then we are supposed to think it a fact!

And everyone else is just as entitled to their own opinion without me saying they are complete idiots, and if they feel affronted or hurt they are too fragile and need to grow a backbone-and by the way I am not being rude I am stating a fact!

I wouldn't want evidence or proof-it wouldn't be a faith.

niminy, if you consider me unintelligent because of my posts here, that is fair enough - you are free to make that decision. I am not offended in the least.
We are all able to judge who we deem a worthy life-partner - would be no good if we didn't. I cannot take seriously people who base their belief system on faith alone. I am sure the majority are nice enough people, but I'd rather hang out with people who are evidence-based types.

mehitabel - of course you're right about faith; however some Christians (and people of other religions) state their belief as if it was fact. To take a very simple example: children in schools are regularly taught to cheerfully sing 'the Lord God made them all' without any question raised as to whether there is a 'lord god' and if so, whether he made 'all things bright and beautiful' (and never a mention of the dull and ugly...).