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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be THAT parent? (Religious Observance)

103 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/03/2015 23:27

In school, I think it is very important to learn about all world religions, for education, tolerance, historical perspective etc

However, I strongly object to praying/worshipping/being taught belief as fact.

Would it be really unreasonable to withdraw DD from the latter? (Scotland)

OP posts:
Discopanda · 18/03/2015 23:28

Is she at a faith school?

MsShellShocked · 18/03/2015 23:29

You wouldn't be unreasonable. But your DC may not thank you for standing by your principles.....

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/03/2015 23:34

Not faith no. NondenominationalNondenominational, but as in the UK not secular either has school chaplain etc.

shell shocked that's what I'm worried about, I don't want her to be othered because of my beliefs, but on the other hand this is something I feel very strongly about....

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MrsTerryPratchett · 18/03/2015 23:36

Could you find out how many children are doing the same? I agree BTW but it's tough to be the only kid walking out.

MsShellShocked · 18/03/2015 23:38

Talk to school first. Find out how much praying they actually do. And how Christian it is.

Without that info you can't make an informed decision.

I'm very very much against prayers in schools. Am trying to bring my DC up atheists. But decided I didn't want to single them out for my principles.

Round here it's only Jehovah witness who get withdrawn. Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus etc all seem to stay in. So I figured the prayers must really be pretty bland.

StaceyAndTracey · 18/03/2015 23:45

Is your child attending a non denominational school ? If so , you are quite safe . Schools do not allow children to be proselytised - they just teach about different religions. It's not scary and your child won't catch anything . Don't you want you child to learn about these so they can make an informed choice about what they believe ? Or are you scared they will learn something and disagree with you ?

Ask to see the curriculum if you are stressed about it . It's very low key eg welcoming a new baby in different religions - what seiks , Hindu, Jews , Christiians etc do

So no, don't withdraw your kids from school assemblies, nativity plays etc . You child will hate you, the other parenst will think you are a nutter and the teachers will roll their eyes.

There is one kid who has to be withdrawn from assemblies at my kids school. She has to sit behind a curtain so she doesn't hear the local minister saying such dangerous and controversial things such as

" at harvest time we should be thankful for what we have and think of others less fortunate " -followed by school collection for oxfam

" at Christmas time we should be thankful for the love of our families and think of others who are less fortunate " followed by collection for Charity for the homeless

Meanwhile all the Muslim , Seik , Hindu , Jewish and atheist kids sit there fidgeting just like everyone else .

If your own atheism is so strong, I'm sure it will be able to withstand the ideological onslaught that will happen if you child is allowed to make a Easter card with cotton wool balls and yellow sticky paper beak . Or dress up in a tea towel during the nativity play .

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/03/2015 23:46

I will speak to the school (DD doesn't start until after the summer). Im just worried about marking my card before DD even starts. I've had a look at some CofS teaching resources, and if that is the sort of thing that is used, then it could be pretty religious (bible stories to illustrate morals lots of god did this and that etc). The HT is really nice, so I should pluck up my courage ?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 18/03/2015 23:50

Is your child attending a non denominational school ? If so , you are quite safe . Schools do not allow children to be proselytised - they just teach about different religions. It's not scary and your child won't catch anything

This is simply not true. humanism.org.uk/campaigns/schools-and-education/collective-worship/ Compulsory worship. Not 'education about' religion which most atheists are fine with.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/03/2015 23:52

StaceyandTracey I have no problem with any of your examples.

I would have a problem with, for example, at harvest festival " food is a gift from his, and Jesus teaches us we should share with the less fortunate. Now let us pray"

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/03/2015 23:53

His = god fecking atheist autocorrect

OP posts:
KatoPotato · 18/03/2015 23:55

DS and his class were taken to the church today as part of learning about Easter....

Looks like he coloured in a picture of Jesus and was told 'an Easter story that wasn't very good'

DH and I strict atheists but both remember the excluded kids at school, so would rather suck it up for now and reinforce that 'some people like to believe that...'

I do however take issue that it's called Religious and Moral education. Why should Morals be linked with religion?

MrsTerryPratchett · 18/03/2015 23:58

fecking atheist autocorrect Grin I need to get me some of that.

StaceyAndTracey · 19/03/2015 00:02

It's likely that the mininter will pray.childrenare expected to remain quiet and respectful while he or she prays .

If you have a problem with your child learning about others people's beliefs and / or being asked to respect other people's views, them you will have a problem with the curriculum for excellence RE stuff and assemblies .

You do know, don't you, that there will possibly be children from all faiths and none at your childs school ? So even if you withdraw them from RE, they will still be exposed to different beliefs and opinions.

If you are worried about this , you would need to HE your child to ensure that they only learn about your own beliefs . Or perhaps find a school that teaches only your own belief system .

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/03/2015 00:06

Again, I have no problem at all with DD learning about any religion. I have no intention of withdrawing her from RME. I have an issue with DD practising religion in school and am considering withdrawing her from religious observance only

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KatoPotato · 19/03/2015 00:09

Some of the stuff is quite comedy...

MsShellShocked · 19/03/2015 00:10

How multicultural is the area you live in? Are there likely to be a lot of religions at the school?

If so I think it's a fairly safe bet the praying will be like the example above. Offensive to no one - except those Christians who would rightly expect praying to be about god

StaceyAndTracey · 19/03/2015 00:15

Well of course that's your right if you wish. But I have to say you sound very scared that you child might hear views or experience things that are different from your. You can't control your DDsthoughts and mind forever .

Religion isnt like Ebola , you know. It's not like they will have a talk about Jewish weddings and next thing they are Jewish . I've yet to meet anyone who decided to Convert to Christianity after a school assembly

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/03/2015 00:25

But I have to say you sound very scared that you child might hear views or experience things that are different from your.

Have you read anything I have written. Learning about religion, great. Practising religion, not great. A subtle distinction I know...

OP posts:
cariadlet · 19/03/2015 00:26

OP - I understand where you are coming from. I had exactly the same thoughts before dd started school.
I think that RE is important, but really wish that compulsory worship was abolished.
In the end, I decided there wasn't any point in withdrawing dd from assemblies. I tried to pre-empt the affect of school while dd was a toddler by making sarky comments about religious nutters every time we passed a church until DP stopped me (he was worried that dd would repeat my comments and cause offence).

Initially my fears seemed to be founded. In Reception, dd decided that she believed in God. I wondered how many years it would be until she stopped believing in Father Christmas so that I could compare the 2.

Then, in Year 1, she decided that she wanted to become a Muslim - we're in a pretty monocultural little town, but she'd been to some Muslim countries on holiday, and I think she liked the headscarfs!

Her belief and non-belief fluctuated over the years. She is now in Year 7. She doesn't believe in God, but has chosen to go to a C of E secondary school. She puts up with worship, but loves RE and has a really good teacher who encourages children to have their own beliefs and ideas, and to value those of others.

I guess this is a very long-winded way of saying that you need to chill and trust that dd will come out of it ok.

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/03/2015 00:28

Is it really so difficult for people to understand what the objection is. Stacey if your child was expected to sit and listen while an imam prayed, and that was expected to be part of their day, every day, at school, would you be happy?

Amazingly, lots of us evil atheists have religious friends. DD has gone to Hanukkah since her first year at my mates' house, I love Eid. You can't stop me with Christmas. But not worship in school. Education is what is supposed to happen, which is great. Most of us don't mind our children learning ABOUT other religions but not partaking in worship.

Do people really not understand that?

StaceyAndTracey · 19/03/2015 00:31

And I'm struggling to see how eg being quiet while someone else prays in school assembly is " practising religion " .

If I attend a Hindu wedding, I'm not practising Hinduism , I'm just supporting my Hindu friend who is the bride or groom . Jut being there doesn't make me a Hindu . I don't have to agree with anything they believe.

If I attend Eid at a friends house, that doesn't make me Muslim , I'm just a guest at a special celebration . I'm not personally condoning all the wrongs of the world that are done in the name of Islam .

your child being in the room while a vicar / priest / Minster says a prayer is not " practising a religion" .

You are seriously over thinking this . I'm guessing this is your PFB?

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/03/2015 00:34

Did you look at the link I posted, Stacey? Compulsory worship of a broadly Christian nature. That's the law. We didn't make that up.

I'm guessing this is your PFB? Don't be so bloody patronising.

StaceyAndTracey · 19/03/2015 00:36

I'm sure that " making sarky comments about religious nutters " and referring to " evil atheists " is really helping your children learn about respecting others peoples views

attheendoftheday · 19/03/2015 00:37

My dd1 starts school in September, and I'm struggling with this a bit too (happy for her to learn about religion but dont want her forced by peer pressure into practising). I would much prefer her not to be withdrawn if I can help it, but I've decided to hold off deciding until I get to meet her teacher and ask some questions about their practice.

I'm no help, but I see where your concerns cone from.

attheendoftheday · 19/03/2015 00:40

Presumably if it wasn't the op's pfb she would have already decided where she stands on withdrawing from religious practice. It being her pfb doesn't mean her concerns aren't valid.