To privately not have much respect for a lot of teachers

[parsnipandmushroom]

Obviously I would never communicate this to a child, but when the "teacher knows best" lines emerge on here I often think 'no, they don't.'

I've known so many teachers make numerous basic errors with resources, and give children the wrong information. This wouldn't actually bother me much but coupled with the complaints about pay, working hours and stress, I do often think 'stop whining.'

So I am not accused of being a troll - I only mean some teachers, and so I'm not accused of drip feeding information, I am a teacher.

AIBU?

I've been through five Ofsted inspections as a parent. I find them ridiculous pointless - weeks of life going on hold while bits of the school are painted, flowers planted, display boards updated etc. Teachers devise the most interesting interactive lessons for when the inspectors are in according to my DC. Any cheeky or badly behaved kids seem to be shifted around the school to keep them well away from the inspectors. Xmas school plays have been cancelled for Ofsted. Then when they're gone it's back to normal. What on earth are they for? I sympathise with teachers on this. Take a failing school - there's one recently been closed near me - you can't tell me all the teachers were bad? Surely it's mainly down to the area that it was in? - a poor area where there's a lack of parenting overall, aspiration etc? What do they do? Close it down and spread those kids around three other schools so that the problem is diluted and less obvious.

Sparing, and yet the op is on here saying that primary teachers shouldn't do their own display boards or photocopying. She clearly doesn't have as wide a knowledge of her own profession as she is claiming. Many primary schools across the country are running in a staff of less than 15. Who does the op think should be doing all these jobs?

Annie Ofsted don't close down schools for being in a poor area or having kids from difficult backgrounds.

They close schools for not having effective management who are not able to put proper procedures in place to address previously flagged fundamental problems, such as poor teaching, poor safety, poor assessment and poor progress.

With the squeeze on school places, I can't imagine any school is shut down except as a last resort.

well speaking as someone from a family of teachers, I think people forget that they are only human.

" Take a failing school - there's one recently been closed near me - you can't tell me all the teachers were bad? Surely it's mainly down to the area that it was in? - a poor area where there's a lack of parenting overall, aspiration etc? What do they do? Close it down and spread those kids around three other schools so that the problem is diluted and less obvious."

er yeh I am really not sure it works like that. It is not the parents who are being inspected now is it?

They also sometimes close schools down where numbers have fallen a bit and they think they can save money by squeezing two schools onto whichever one has the bigger site. Local to me this decision was taken about 15yrs ago and has proved to be a short term solution giving rise to a long term problem as there is simply not enough places for the local children. A few years ago Manchester LA had a massive issue in the Didsbury area where they had scores of children they literally couldn't place for Reception. It was awful. Yet the government planning guidelines still allow developers to build 100s of new houses without including plans for a new school.

Is 6pm a late finish? Happens all the time in the private sector. Then the commute home. And of course taking work home is standard.

Spending time at weekends working? Yep, pretty standard for any professional in the private sector too.

Photocopying and wall displays? Tedious I grant you. But hardly intellectually demanding or stressful. I have watched our teachers propping up the photo copier chatting with office staff, a mug of tea in hand for 45 minutes while the photocopier, you know, photo copies.

Same with assembling wall displays. Time consuming but hardly life and death. And being paid a professional hourly rate for faffing around with a stapler and art card shapes? Not too shabby really is it

sparing - I never said Ofsted close down schools for being in a poor area or because they're full of kids from difficult backgrounds . What a stupid thing to say.

What comes first? It can't be easy managing badly behaved kids that don't want to learn and where the behaviour is bad. Not all the teachers in any one school can be bad - even a failing one. Of course the managers will be blamed for the lack of progress, attendance and the teaching, but they're teaching kids that don't want to learn which can be put down to bad teaching etc however there's only so much they can do. It must be utterly soul destroying for them. The example I gave happened in the city I live. They spread those kids about to dilute the problem and hopefully it'll help address it.

There's no squeeze on school places where I am, only on the perceived good primary schools that feed into perceived good secondary schools, which aren't that good. The one that closed was part of a shake up for various reasons but was underperforming badly. That can't just be down to bad management and bad teachers. Knowing the area I think it must have been absolute hell for the teachers and management there.

" I never said Ofsted close down schools for being in a poor area or because they're full of kids from difficult background"

well that is certainly how your comment sounded annie.....

One of the best primary schools I worked in was one in a very deprived area in the North West. The head was a real inspiration and had really gone out of her way to address the fundamental problems of the surrounding community, for example running a mother and baby group to address the problem of children coming into reception with no idea what a book was, not toilet trained, no concentration etc.

It was such a positive atmosphere and had also won all sorts of grants for extra play equipment etc, which of course helped.

Deprived area does not automatically = poor schools and failing kids.

TEACHERS? It is like all careers, they vary.

TEACHER career advert on ITV is great

wyrd, DH often works 9-7 but he considers that he had done a long day so 8-6 is similar, no? My DH is a lawyer working for an investment bank. He often works those hours but does little at home, far less than when he was in Practice. He never works weekends either. And I didn't say the photocopying or wall displays were mentally stimulating, just time consuming on top on all the marking. DH would be the first to admit that my job is more all consuming and emotionally exhausting than his. He cannot understand why I do it, why I didn't also do law or something like management consultancy. But I wanted to teach. The 'falling' into teaching because you have poor qualifications so couldn't really do anything else is, I'm sure, a myth.

annielouise. I could have written your post. What you harps to deal with was very similar to my own experiences.

Hmm Sparing, was that school in an area sung about in the song about Lowry? If so, I taught there for 3yrs. Fantastic school and HT but it had originally been in SM and therefore we had buckets of money sent our way which, granted, was used very very effectively. It was still one if the most draining teaching experiences of my life and I couldn't do it now I have kids. When I think back to the home life some of those kids had, it makes me cry. Massive amounts of learning took place but that was because the bottom line was nurture and enrichment and making those kids feel safe. I'm not sure it would be the same these days when performance related pay dictates classroom practice.

No, sparing, obviously a deprived area doesn't automatically mean a bad school - I didn't say that either - but there's cause and effect and there's no way it's all down to the management and teachers being completely ineffective - management maybe over a long period if they're all completely bad or very inexperienced and not being supported by any other outside agencies but if the support isn't there then the outcomes won't be good regardless. I can imagine it's easier to turn a primary around, as in your example, than a secondary too in terms of behaviour etc.

Sunny, your comprehension doesn't seem that good. Who said anything about parents being inspected? What's your point there? The point I was trying to make is the behaviour from the kids stems from the parents (obviously!) which is why I mentioned overall parenting or the lack of it. Sometimes no matter what you do you can't turn an area or school around - and a few different heads tried. FFS I'm trying to support and sympathise with the teachers here . I know exactly what they did in my area. They split those kids up and shifted the problem. They solved nothing in the end.

WetAugust - it was Kafkaesque. No one taking responsibility. Delays in responding, hoping you'd give up, questions unanswered multiple times, twisting things round, defensiveness, outright lying and turning of tables. All in the hope they wouldn't be called to account for neglect, which is what it was. That's been my experience anyway. Thank god the school days are almost over.

"Sunny, your comprehension doesn't seem that good"
REally I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with my 'comprehension'. Your writing seems really incoherent and lacking in clarity.

Ah, the national sport of teacher bashing. Some people are such wankers

You've made a few pointless remarks Sunny so I'm afraid it is. Why mention something like it's not the parents being inspected? Bizarre. And my writing isn't really incoherent and lacking in clarity - what bits especially (give me the sentences to prove your point - if you can).

Annie to what, then, do you attribute the recent Ofsted inspection failure of Hill House?

Private primary, fees £10k a year, summer school in Switzerland and massive parental backing.

A yet they failed inspection.

By your reckoning as they don't have kids from poor backgrounds they should have flown through.

No, again, sparing, I haven't said that. I've never said anything about it only being schools for kids from poor backgrounds that fail. Where have I said that? How is that by my reckoning?

Someone has had a horrible experience with school so all teachers in the State system are useless, lazy and ineffective? Right? Obviously not. How insulting. I had a horrible experience when in hospital having my Dd, that doesn't make the entire NHS rubbish.

Having read the thread I don't think people were saying 8 to 6 was a very long day they were responding to someone who said they work 6 hours a day as though they arrive at 9 and leave at 3, which is obviously not true.

'Those who've done well would have without any teaching and those who haven't, that's my (and my colleagues) fault.'

Well yes. To an extent.

My son has SEN and teachers so far have found him far too difficult to educate. So they haven't.

My dd is doing well as a bright September girl and would do well pretty much anywhere. She's an enthusiastic autonomous learning and soaks up whatever the environment has to offer. In school it is what the teacher teaches and more. For her, school is an excellent resource, but it isn't the only way children like her can learn and to pretend it is, is quite silly.

My ds needs quite specific, stepped teaching delivered by someone with a good grounding in pedagody and the time to apply it, with short term measurable targets and daily data taken in order to ensure he progresses. The current education system does not provide this.

My daughter does fine in the system as she would anywhere but she doesn't need much more than her learning 'facilitated' and 'steered'. The current education system does not provide this either.

The battery chicken approach is bollox for both of them and most teachers agree with this, at least all those I have met and I have met blimmin millions.

I haven't taught since 2011 but certainly then it was the case that teachers weren't supposed to do admin tasks, including photocopying and displays. Has that changed?

myredcardigan Have you come across this organisation and the blogs linked?

educationalrightsalliance.blogspot.co.uk/

I'm cautiously optimistic about their campaign and the drive behind it. They have a manifesto signed by some fantastic education professionals.