To privately not have much respect for a lot of teachers

[parsnipandmushroom]

Obviously I would never communicate this to a child, but when the "teacher knows best" lines emerge on here I often think 'no, they don't.'

I've known so many teachers make numerous basic errors with resources, and give children the wrong information. This wouldn't actually bother me much but coupled with the complaints about pay, working hours and stress, I do often think 'stop whining.'

So I am not accused of being a troll - I only mean some teachers, and so I'm not accused of drip feeding information, I am a teacher.

AIBU?

What's not real is that it's not a "real" commercial environment, with clients, and deadlines, and overtime, and long commutes, and longer hours, and weekend working, and client breakfast meetings, and business trips, and working bank holidays, and 24 days off a year, and trying to compete in a "man's" world, and not discussing your kids in case it is seen as weakness, and constantly having one eye on the bottom line, and knowing that if a target isn't met you're at risk of getting the boot.

I think that's what is meant by "the real world".

Now that the OP has said that she is management, I now realise why she hates colleagues "moaning"

Sparing, a lot of the points you make atre true of teaching as well.

I'd like to be out of touch with a lot of the issues I've faced in school.

Sparing

There can't be many jobs that you class as "real" if that is your criteria.

clients...a variety
deadlines...yes, multiplr ones and often new and at short notice
overtime...only unpaid
long commutes...depends
longer hours...only unpaid, I used to work 7.30-6 and then in the evenings. Paid for less.
weekend working...of course
client breakfast meetings...does meeting parents before 8am count?
business trips...only school journey and residentials
working bank holidays...no
24 days off a year...no
trying to compete in a "man's" world...Ever wonder why teaching is female-dominated?
not discussing your kids in case it is seen as weakness...you can talk about them, just don't expect any concessions and the gods help you if you child has any behavioural issues or additional needs.
constantly having one eye on the bottom line...yes
knowing that if a target isn't met you're at risk of getting the boot...yes.

That's teaching.

What's not real is that it's not a "real" commercial environment, with
clients, -yes
deadlines, - every day
and overtime - every day
and long commutes, - depends on how far you live from work, surely?
and longer hours, - yes
and weekend working, - yes
and client breakfast meetings - yes, and lunch ones and after school
and business trips, - yes, and we bring the kids
and working bank holidays - yes
and 24 days off a year, - no, but then we can't choose our time off at all
and trying to compete in a "man's" world, - my school certainly isn't sympathetic to women, and almost all SLT are male
and not discussing your kids in case it is seen as weakness - never admit a weakness, you'll be put on a 'support programme'
and constantly having one eye on the bottom line - yes, results
and knowing that if a target isn't met you're at risk of getting the boot - absolutely. Results are constantly scrutinised

I think that's what is meant by "the real world". -
Then teachers absolutely work in the real world. More real than other worlds as when I worked in the private sector I never had to worry about my clients' mental health, family circumstances, poor behaviour, violence.

Quite, Hag!
And why is it that my professional DH working in the very corporate and results driven world of investment law thinks that it's my job which is the stressful one and that it's my pay and working conditions which are crap?

I know several who absolutely hate their job and are just wanting a way out which is a shame as all through my ds education without exception they were fantastic in every way

Was goimng to post, but Noble and Hag have already done it for me.

The corporate 'real' world is also shorter on

• Violence - parent to teacher, pupil to teacher, pupil to pupil, parent to teacher.
• Poverty, and its effects on those who suffer it - poor nutrition, unsafe housing, lack of suitable clothing, neglect while parents work on multiple jobs.
• Crime - I have had much more contact with the effects of drug use and dealing, parental imprisonment etc etc than I ever had as a middle manager in industry.

Those are arguably much more 'real' than the corporate bubble.

I do meet some teachers, from certain schools, who don't have conrtact with this type of reality, and who hark back to a different era of school teaching. But not many.

On the 'teachers being relatively poorly educated / quilified' point, I would agree that my PhD and cup to say Ii got the highest final exam results in my Oxbridge college are not precisely USUAL - but good degrees from decent universities, or good BEds from well-regarded providers, are the norm amongst my primary teaching peers.

And yes, DH has seen me come home, open a bottle of wine and cry over the welfare of a child on many occasions. I have never seen him come home and worry about a client.
And pay and job security is massively under threat if results are not met. Because apparently Y6 results should get better year on year like baking cakes or some other practice makes perfect scenario. Never mind that we're dealing with actual real people meaning that results will vary naturally from one year to the next.

I don't get the poorly educated bit either. I have very good Alevels and a 2:1 from a top RG university. I followed this up with an MA and a PGCE. Yet due to the profession I chose to enter, it's assumed that I'm poorly educated. Really?

These lists are showing that perhaps in a corporate world there are similar issues just without the holidays. I think it would also be great if I could send people out of meetings if they misbehaved or disagreed!
Quite surprised to see earlier on the thread that someone thought that in private companies you just throw in expenses and they are not scrutinised or declined. That just is not the case.
Also for business trips which I am guessing is referred to as the same as school trips people do have to go with clients or it wouldn't make much of a meeting. I am sure in some industries such as travel there is a duty of care.
This thread is interesting reading but I am just not seeing teachers as hard done by.

I don't feel hard done by, I'm on supply for the rest of my career and loving it. It was never about the money for me.

Want, I cannot thow out

• Parents (even if abusive or violent)
• Other professionals
• Inspectors and advisors
• Senior leadership

etc if I disagree with them

Those are the people I have meetings with (before school, over lunch, after school). I do my work with 32 children.

I agree it is hard to compare like with like, which is probably why misconceptions and resentments appear. I am not certain that my extra holiday compensates for all my 1 day weekends, but someone working in anotgher industry might disagree, because actually for them they would be happy to make that sacrifice? As indeed am I, because I compromise my ability to spend any tiome with my own children in term time for my ability to see them during holidays. And as i have said upthread, I don't work harder (though I weep more, as it is much more emotionally involving) than did as a middle manager in industry. I just don't work LESS hard, as others on here - who may not have worked in both sectors - are claiming.

Want, I suppose the point is that, in many schools, teachers can't put in exopenses at all, ever, despite paying for many resources that are critical to their teaching such as basic glue, pencils, pens etc.

I have never encountered an scenario in which i said in industry 'Here are my legitimate business expenses' and got the reply 'Sorry, no money to pay it, we know youy'll do it out of your own pocket because it is needed for you to do the job'.

(I would point out that many schools are better fuinded and teachers buy less. But some do have insufficient money for basic consumables)

Wantsunshine, this goady thread did not start as one about teachers being hard done by.

Although I would see any teacher who has to use their own money for equipment and treats for children as many do, as hard done by.

Probably by the time I got to page 11 the thread had changed points a few times. Although I have read threads where people at work are considered thieves if they charge their phones and have had to buy things in order to carry out their jobs. Some terrible employers out there.
I just think the working overtime for nothing and working weekends is standard now for so many jobs it just isn't something anyone can understand why teachers mention the evening and weekend work they do.

I've read the whole thread and a lot of what I want to say has been said. It's getting, inevitably, anecdotal, but to add my views...

I've been teaching for 17 years. I like to think I'm pretty good at what I do, OFSTED seem to agree. Parents often tell me what a difference I make. Ex-students stay in touch. I love my job and I don't often whinge. As for hours, though - I choose to do a lot of extra stuff. My choice. Evenings, weekends. On Tuesday I did an after school activity with some yr 7s. In order for two of them to take part, I also had to taxi them home. Obviously I could have just excluded them from the activity but that's where the emotional investment comes in. It's not their fault their parents don't drive.

DH is a management consultant. Over the year, we probably work similar hours. Mine are in intense bursts, his are more constant. He doesn't have anywhere near the level of emotional investment. He also gets paid 3x what I do.

I love my job and don't tend to moan about it, but it does bug me when people teacher-bash.

Oh, and I went into it straight from university because I wasn't sure what else to do. I suspect a great many people end up in jobs for that very reason. It's absolute bull that the best teachers are the ones who "always" wanted to do it. Who lets a 6 year old choose their career? Isn't that what the "I've always wanted to do..." brigade did?

Haven't read the whole thread.

I wince when my SIL talks about her class. I would hate her to look after my DC. She appears to have little motivation and I know she does no marking or prep in her own time (freely admits this) yet she still moans about how busy and stressful her job is.

I am hoping she is in the minority!

I really don't understand why there's so much teacher bashing in this country. Last term I sent an email to a teacher at 8.30 pm, hoping she might pick it up early in the morning. She replied at 9.15 pm. The next time I needed to email I made sure it was at 11.00, hoping she'd be off email and not feel obliged to reply from home. She replied at 7.15 am. Teachers do a fantastic job, despite abuse and ridiculous pressures from Ofsted etc. no other public service fails to warn its clients that no violence or abuse will be tolerated, and they have to deal with so much unpleasantness. Of course some teachers are poor, but I meet far fewer poor teachers than representatives of other professions. Vast majority of teachers are so committed and enthusiastic. I take my hat off to them. I wouldn't last long, doing what they do.

I'm a teacher and I know a lot of crap teachers but I also know far more fantastic ones. There are some I wouldn't let near a child of my own but far more that I have only utter respect for and would be grateful if they were the ones to teach my DD.

I know crap dentists and really great ones, the same with doctors, engineers and customer service professionals. I don't really get the point of the OP unless it's to cause a bunfight.

What an arrogant OP.

I would question your own priorities if the moaning pisses you off more than the factually incorrect teaching. What are doing about the inaccuracies you've witnessed, out of interest, aside from moaning about others' incompetence?

I can guarantee that your lack of respect for your colleagues makes itself known to the students, if you are half as self-congratulatory as your post makes you sound.

My job means that, although I'm not a teacher, I spend a lot of time in schools. I can't agree with your generalisations. You do get some 'characters' though OP .

I haven't read the whole thread but was too at the OP not to post!

Having just returned from ds' GCSE options evening after having attended parent-teacher consultations earlier in the day with the same teachers I would say OP YABVU. Those teachers had a VERY long day but even by the end they were helpful, informative, friendly and clearly knew the children very well.

As a teacher myself, I work with really dedicated and talented (all in their own way) colleagues. They might have a whinge now and then but they all care immensely about their students and put a lot of thought into supporting them.