AIBUto think it's actually more impossible to work full time with teenagers than younger children?

[bbcessex]

Just that really. I work (more than) full time; I have a high profile role in my area of specialism.. I work long hours, I travel, I have a lot of tight deadlines etc. I am fortunate because I can to a large degree dictate my own schedule, and I can work from pretty much anywhere.. I have very much a role measured on success rather than input (although it needs a lot of input to be successful).

I've seen a number of threads on MN recently that have made me realise that maybe I'm not alone in thinking that it actually gets harder to hold down a demanding job when your DC are older...yet every headline or article on the 'working mum / parent' front seems to centre around availability of childcare / cost of childcare / guilt about 'leaving' your children etc. etc.

I've never once seriously thought about cutting back or stopping work before; but my DC are 15 and 13 now and I'm currently dropping the ball in numerous areas.. none of which I've done when they were younger and it IS all child-related stuff.. I've always been fortunate enough to be able to pay for the exact sort of childcare I wanted.. but now - I don't really need 'childcare' and I should be experiencing some 'freedom' at this stage - or at least I thought.. but looking back, when then most stressful part of my day was getting to the nursery by 6om and getting them into bed by 7pm, I'm thinking that those were the golden years!

AIBU to think that actually - it's much, much harder to work long hours in a demanding role when your DC are revising / taking exams / needing you to push them / arrange tutors / challenge them / cajole them / threaten them! / console them.. none of this can really be done by a childminder / nanny / third party..

AIBU? or am I doing it wrong? HELP!

My 9 to 5 (not sure why it's not a "proper job") has flexi time and good holidays. I could do a more challenging job but that's why I stay. We are quite lucky in that we both have a day off in the week which helps in holidays. DS is 13 but still feel guilty if he has to spend a whole day alone. He does seem to want to talk a lot at the moment and always rings me when he gets in from school.

I stepped back when they started school and am currently trying to step back in and its a nightmare, but something had to give and it wasnt going to be the kids.

I think you might be over-thinking it grapewall, they could be absolutely fine with you working FT.
Generally I think if parents want to get deeply involved in their teenagers h/w or ferrying them round to lots of different activities that's fine. But it's absolutely not essential and to me it seems extreme to give up work to cater for it. Self-sufficiency, resilience, learning that you can't do everything on demand are all important life lessons too.

gaahhnonicknamesleft I'm glad you said it re "it's so easy when they're little"... as a parent of almost 3yo twins this thread is seriously putting the wind up me! Did any of you guys' kids ever get sick? Ours have been ill 5 times this winter (chickenpox, D&V, 3 colds) and the sleepless nights, taking time off work, and then having no time to take off when you get sick yourself, is seriously going to break us soon. It's already been a revelation at least that they are now old enough to sit up on the sofa with a duvet and watch Frozen when they're not well - last 2 years it was just endless crying and needing held. And then one is ill and the other is bored around the house. Aargh. Don't want to go back.

I also think that the extent to which you can outsource depends on the kid, even in the early days. My girls are settled in a nice nursery that they really like but when I come through the door at night you can't peel them off. DD2 basically parks herself on my knee as soon as I walk in the door and wants to be held until she goes to bed. She seems happy enough and sleeps well but I think she would really prefer more time at home. But there you go.
I used to work in an after school club and I really recognise from what you guys are saying, that older kids don't just front up to you and tell you what is wrong - you need to be around them a bit and let them come to you. Kind of like making friends with cats. I can see why that is hard to combine with a full time job. But you just either do it or you don't do it. It's not like with little kids where some days you are counting the minutes till bedtime, having the last ounce of patience wrung out of you.

Yep, they need you. As a mum of now university aged DC, I can tell you that they continue to need you even then--albeit away from home but back for long spells. I am often needed for what I call "telephone counselling" sessions.

I think it's a myth that child rearing gets easier as they grow and develop. The old adage is true that little children have little problems, but big ones bring big problems (or can do, at times...).

Love the 'it's like making friends with cats' line toomuchtooold

toomuchtohold- I sympathise- my son rarely had attendance greater than 75% all throughout primary school, I still find he needs a lot of input even though he is 17.

And that bit about counting the minutes till bedtime- sorry to warn you , but you don't even get that respite when they are teenagers, as they usually go tp bed at the same time as me.
At least they sleep longer in the mornings now!!

Thanks for all the comments – I feel better already from knowing I’m not on my own (and I’ve taken on board some of the comments from those who feel differently too).

Merguez - I know !– I have skim read the thread and am going to miss out people, I just know it

lovepard - I completely understand your evening.. that sounds very similar to one of mine on given days; it’s all that (shared with DH but some things are more ‘my area’), plus I really should be focussing on a work project / strategy document

bluejelly.. I did try to encourage DC into clubs etc. when they were younger, but now it genuinely is of their own volition. My approach is that if they want to do it, if they are prepared to commit to it, then they can do it. We can afford it, so we make it work (at the expense of more lines and grey hair of course!). It’s certainly not the clubs that are particularly concerning me.. it’s more their ‘lives’ and education that I feel I’m letting them down on.

LoveVintage - yes – the texts!!!! I can be sitting in a conference and get something out of the blue… or my careful plans are squashed by a ‘oh – did I tell you XXXX’… argh!

Grobags I do agree wholeheartedly that I am setting a great example to my DC and that is hugely valuable. I also agree that I need to instill a little more independence in them; I’m absolutely going to take that one board. I think that will help significantly. . they will still do their hobbies / passions though.. I’m more than happy for them to be transported here there and everywhere if they commit to it and there’s value in it. I think if it is possible to support your DC in hobbies and opportunities, its slightly selfish not to because it doesn’t fit in with your ideal. (If it’s NOT possible then there’s no argument).

toomuchtooold.. I can think back to those days and I don’t have twins!! I certainly am not, in any way, saying it’s easy to have little children.. far far far from it.. I just imagined I would be less stressed by now – and I’m not!!!

atumbra.. yep – I get up at 5:00am so am often reminding DD to ‘turn the lights off when you come up’!!!

I am a stepmother to two DSSs and am just getting to the end of their schooling. I confirm that the teenage years, with exam pressures and major planning/decision on higher education, require massive parental input, skill and presence.

I think that generally, when parents of teenagers are discussing what's 'easier', rose tinted glasses probably play a part.

'Running them to clubs', 'supporting them through exams', 'being a sounding board'...yes, parental involvement is required, obviously.

But harder? Having a 14 and 16 year old is harder than when they were tiny?

Harder than the years when you have no sleep and still have to put in an eight hour day in work? Harder than having to be alert every second when you're out with a 5 and 3 year old, dealing with tantrums, making every meal and being responsible and the driving force every SECOND over everything they do? Harder than rushing from work to the cm to school, knowing you can't be a second late (because they can hardly hang around on their own for a bit). Harder than crying over your bank account when you pay the £800 childcare bill?

Really? REALLY? Or is there the tiniest chance that by the time you have teenagers, those rose tinted spectacles are firmly in place over the early years?

For us it's not about after school activities. We have an ok bus service and cycling is doable. There is no problem with initiative taking or general getting on in the world and with other people.

Oh but God the (trying to encourage) studying is killing us. Help is wanted but then rejected rudely. There are the layers of assignments done the night before with minimal effort. We want to step back but DS is young in year and naive and stubborn about the requirement for work. He wants to go onto higher ed in a competitive subject . At this stage I'd be as happy for a lower goal but better efforts towards it!

I was never a helicopter parent and up until alarm bells from some school departments DS had responsibility for his own schoolwork. As Ragwort says I don't want an unemployed/ underemployed adult at home forever.

I was a motivated student with an old head on my shoulders, it's no guarantee of anything.

Physically it is harder having a young child and no-one is saying that it is easy to work full-time at that stage.
What we are saying is that it gets complicated when they are older and doesn't necessarily get easier.

Older kids can't just be dropped off where you decide-they have their own ideas of how they want to spend the school holidays.
It is a good thing to encourage independence but can 11 and 12 year olds really be left all day for weeks at a time.
Siblings don't always get on even if they would be okay individually.

IMO the in-between years are the trickiest.
The early years are physically demanding, the later teenage years involve a lot of mental worry-but as far as working full-time goes 9-14 is awkward.

annethepianist.. I'm know there's an element of blurred memory in there somewhere of course. I know it was bloody hard too when they were small.. the relentlessness of it and repetition was challenging in it's own right.

My post really is not about having teenagers versus having toddlers /primary.. it's about having a full time career and keeping on the ladder. It felt easier a few years ago. The 'problems' that the DC have now seem to be the sort that keep me awake.. they are 'bigger', more real concerns that the DC face - they're not fixed with soft play / play date / park / sleep.. they need time and input and discussion and often there isn't an easy answer.

I guess my point is that my job needs proper headspace and focus; I get paid for my approach and ability to visualise, action and achieve. I can not be as focussed currently because I feel my DC need those skills of mine more than they ever did...

I'm sure if your DC are the sort that are independently motivated and sail through (as my DS is) then this may not resonate.. but I imagine a lot of teenagers are like mine, and are up and down with various struggles..

This makes perfect sense to me and I have posted about it before but people still focus on how important it is to be around for 1-5 year olds and "you can work when they are older". This is of course true but it is gets harder if anything to work longer hours when they are older and I have several friends who worked FT when their children were small who reduced their hours for a few years when the child/ren started secondary school

As an adult when I think about my childhood, I generally remember my secondary school years the most. whether I think my parents were "there" for me is based on how available they were to me in those years.

This doesn't mean you should or shouldn't be a SAHM or work FT or PT, that is a personal decision. BUT, I would say that it is a good ideas to make any decision about work when children are small with this in mind. Make the decisions in the light that it needs to be sustained for many years.

Your decisions are NOT just for " a few years". If you have 2-3 children your decisions about work will affect any many years of your life, perhaps up to a quarter or more of your entire life. This is a lot of time so people saying "oh it is only a few years" make me a bit angry because they haven't really thought about it.

This is so interesting. I have 12 year old twins and so I feel like I'm at the calm before the storm stage! They're pretty immature too so I think I've had it lucky in that they've been easy to handle as it were up until now. They were premature and I wouldn't go back to that first 2 years for any money on earth, utterly exhausting and yet of course if was just functional stuff you go through not the frightening not knowing what they're thinking, doing, looking at on the internet which I do feel now will be the upcoming issues to deal with.

I'm very lucky (or unlucky depending on your pov) that I don't work and am here for them all the time. I definitely see being at home for the next good few years as my opportunity to be here for them whatever that entails.

I do try and encourage activities after school but they're not really that interested. Anything they wanted to do I would support but I do wonder sometimes with children who are out every evening how the whole family isn't completely frazzled.

OP why do you feel you can't risk not micro-managing your DD? I'm quite hands off, there for them but definitely not massively involved.

I gave up my job (career?) to be at home and do a bit of part time work on an ad hoc basis. However, as the children get older I can see how working more will be challenging. Previously, I had thought once they got up a bit it would be easier to work more. The homeworks are more time consuming and the children are used to a good deal of input. Also, if you've the time to take them, you will allow them to go to various activities. the limit in our case is finances, as we have only one full time wage.

Also, my husband's job is very demanding. I don't know how we would ever be able to recalibrate our lives so he would know the right day for piano, various medical appointments and where the maths book is. At least, not without a lot of shouting. I'm not saying he wouldn't do it, of course he would but we have got into a routine where I know all this stuff and keep on top of it all. Trying to explain it would drive me up the wall. The ball would be dropped.

I do feel that children/teens these days do rely a lot on parental support (generalisation I'm sure). We joke sometimes that when the current generation leave home at the age of 50, they'll not know how to make a cup of tea, never mind get themselves to work.

Its all hard work isnt it ? Littles and teens. But it its just a different kind of thing with the older ones. I remember the relentlessness of the younger years - never ending. But rose tinted glasses AnnieTP with respect no I don't think so.

The "problems' seem so much harder to sort as they get older. Or you have to accept you can't or shouldn't sort them out. But the stakes seem very high. Sex, drugs, mental health, careers, exams, peer pressure, motivation, finding their places in society (that can be full of knocks....)

Its less physical parenting but more the slow grind of being someone who is there for them trying to do and say the right thing. It all costs more ( including the EATING... ) And they very possibly hate you in return.

At least with the littles there are the lovely hugs and kisses at the end of an exhausting day before you start it all again.

its not the fact that teenagers can be every bit as emotionally hard work as toddlers, its more the fact that we all thought it would get easier by this stage and we could really get into a job we like or ramp up a job we have always liked...and its so not the case!!

so when does it get easier, when they are about 25?

I feel fortunate that at the minute I can stay at home and keep an eye on things. Not everyone can out. We have had some scary financial times and I don't know how things will be in the future. However, if I can mostly be at home, my children will then have to miss out on some activities because they will be too expensive for us. I have no problem with this, as they shouldn't get everything anyway, but I can see a bit of grumbling ahead!

Sequoianationalpark.. I'm not certain I micro-manage - I am certainly involved, and I do have to push a lot for anything to get done (with DD - not DS) but I do, to an extent, leave to their own devices for a while. I do facilitate their sports though; I'm happy to do that as they are both passionate about it.. if I ever suggest giving training for a miss, for example, I get a resolute 'not on your nelly' so whilst they have that attitude I will continue certainly for the foreseeable future when I can.

With the schoolwork, I have tried the hands off approach before, and making them responsible for their own homework, especially in Year 8 / 9.. DD ended up with after-school detentions and dropping behind in her grades etc. Even when DD thinks she is 'doing well', this is often not the reality as her way of studying & completing exam papers isn't correct. When me or DH work with her to plan and check her work, it's better (not great, but better).

She's a bright girl but disorganised. She has improved immensely over the years and will no doubt go one to achieve great things, but I shall be a burnt out husk at the end of it

I think you are right. I worked FT until 2012 when my ds was 9 and have worked part-time since (and since mid-2013 have been home-based). I do think he needs me more now than he did as a toddler or when he was at infant school.

Oh yes and scouts not finishing until 9pm (or in our case, often closer to 9.15 as it always overruns) in our area too. My ds doesn't do too many extra-curricular activities as I don't like to overload him and I only have one child, so I don't have to dash around too much but it does help being around if he has problems at school or needs help with homework.

And of course there isn't much in the way of childcare (or as many holiday activities) for the over 12s so it definitely helps to be at home in the holidays.

also - a previous poster up thread - I'm sorry, I can't find the post off hand.. said about her child having an accident and going into hospital for weeks.. I'm so sorry to hear that.. your post did give me a shudder as it reminded me that we are somewhat balancing on eggshells here.. If we had an unexpected event like that then work would absolutely have to take a back seat.

I can see where you are coming from, but it's definitely not true for us. My children are 11 and 12, so not quite teenagers but getting here. My husband and I are both academics and full-time, but can work at home a lot and very flexibly most of the time. When they were tiny that didn't help all that much as you can't work and look after a 1 and 2 yr old at the same time. However now I can be at home and around if they need be, but still get on quite efficiently. And the increasing ability to leave them alone for short periods is just wonderful and is going to continue to increase. We use minimal 'childcare' - just some holiday clubs really.

I think it helps that many of the activities they do are within walking/cycling distance or they can get the train. There is some driving around, but not an excessive amount. Plus I was so sleep deprived for years in the pre-school period that nothing could come close to that it terms of difficulty. And then there was the relentlessness of caring for a small child - I had a young niece to stay over the weekend and I'd forgotten how needy a 4 yr old is compared to a 12 yr old who can be happily ignored for long periods! I love my life now and feel it is really opening up again and being all about work and small children for years.

I can see the challenges if you are working very long hours out of the house - but there are other ways to work full time, or nearly full time, and not everyone should be full off doom and gloom about it!

And I rarely, if ever, get involved with homework. I admit that is probably partly just good luck that I don't need to (and we'll see how DS fares once he starts secondary) but I still think that some parents are more involved than they need to be, or is even helpful. As a university lecturer I see far too many young people who are not able to work independently.

iregularegular I think the but can work at home a lot is the trick here. Really helps. Being around at a distance.