AIBU to move DD to London

[BusyHomemaker]

I'm a single parent, living in my home town in the East Midlands. Job opportunities are, frankly, abysmal. DD's father moved away two years ago but does come back to see her once a fortnight. I never meant to end up back in my home town, ex lost his job so it was needs must situation. We split over two years ago due to his emotional abuse, and following counselling and a lot of work I finally feel like myself again. Divorce proceedings are underway. My parents have been supportive and are close to DD but I find them suffocating and they can be quite controlling... They seem to view me as a 33yr old child! They mean well but I have always found my relationship with them more manageable (and still close) when living away. I have lived in various places since uni, including abroad for a short time so I'm not particularly attached to my home town, as lovely as the people are.

I have lived in London in the past for over two years and absolutely adore the place. I have taken DD to the museums twice (she's 3) and she loves it too. I still have friends there.

An agency in my home town have put me forward for a role as Receptionist/Admin for an accountancy firm for 20K. I have been running my own craft business whilst caring for my daughter but now itching to get back into the workplace. This is similar to the work I did when living in London before... In Canary Wharf and Moorgate. My plan is to do this job for 12/18mths, saving a few thousand (entirely possible, according to my budget) and aim to move down during the summer before DD starts school. She's due to start Sept 2016. I've been considering where to live and my preference so far is Muswell Hill as it seems family friendly, good schools, fairly close to friends, about 20 min commute to city, easy to get to Kings Cross for seeing family in East Midlands and also DD's dad (based in Sheffield). I know rents are high but if I aim for a salary of 30K I think it's doable for two bed flat. I would also get £200 pm child maintenance and £20 pw CB

Am I mad? Is this just a pipe dream or can I make it a reality? I desperately want to!!

I'm interested in other people's views/tips/shared experience.

TIA

In reply to the question of school wrap-around care costs, our primary (south west London) charges £3 for Breakfast Club (7.15 - 8.45am, inc breakfast), £9 for After School Club (3pm-6pm, inc tea), and £19 per day Holiday Club.

True about rising prices in Nunhead and Brockley. Still cheaper than Muswell Hill though!

There is a lot of movement in primaries in London. We moved in the October after Dd started school and in heavily oversubscribed north london we were offered, in that first year, 4 different places at 4 great schools.

Yes, ideally you'd be living in London for the January 15, 2016 application deadline (I think it's the 15th), but if not, things move and change quickly.

Also, wraparound care provision and cost varies loads. At DD's school, it is totally flexible and £10.50 a day for breakfast and after school club.

The bigger issue is, I think, salary. £30k is not a lot when you have a dependant.

For those who say quality of life would suffer - that's a very personal and subjective thing! People value different things.

We work very hard, to support an enormous mortgage on a shabby house in a scruffy part of north London and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love living in London and bringing my kids up here.

Go for it!! I moved out whilst DS is still young, but I fully intend to move back in within 3 years - do it!!!!

I only moved back as needed my parents as I'm a lone parent myself and was struggling.

I only live an hour outside London & we make it in at least 2 to 6 times a month.

I'd be back in a heart beat if I didn't need my parents so much

It's a great place to bring children up, so much opportunity & a greater outlook on life

OP, I really hope you can make it work.

Personally I would choose another city over London if I was in your situation.

Having commuted to work in London, living both inside and outside the city, my biggest piece of advice would be to remember that the commute will take longer than you think. Just adding up all the bits of the commute doesn't give the full picture - it will take longer than that.

I have had lots of different commutes to/in London (I am a glutton for punishment ). The most recent was: 10 minute bus ride to the station, 30 minute train ride, then either 4 minute train ride and 8 minute bus ride, or 20 minute bus ride. Which looks like it should be around an hour or less, but in fact was usually closer to 2 hours even on a good day.

Because not everything lines up perfectly and you have to wait around for the bus or the train, or it lines up a bit too perfectly, so if you get out of work (or leave home) just 2 or 3 minutes later that means you miss your connection and have to wait 20 minutes for the next train.

And as for a bad day - signal failures, closed stations or just bad traffic - it could take any amount of time.

It didn't matter if when I was late - it was annoying, but at least I had a back up; DH could collect DD from nursery.

If I were a single parent, I would really think twice about taking on a long commute that I couldn't control. I'd want to work as close as possible to my daughter's school.

If I'm being completely honest, my heart is set on making a life in London! I shall aim to move before Jan 15th but I will only move if/when I can afford to and if I know DD will be settled and her school is an easy(ish) commute from work. If by next Spring things aren't happening then I'll aim for another city.

I receive child maintenance of £200 per month and child benefit which will help. I will also qualify for tax credits on £30K a year in London which will pretty much cover child care. I have worked out (based on research and my current budget) that I will need £860 for living costs + rent + travel. I have factored food, clothes, hair cuts, day trips, christmas/birthdays and DD's activities (ballet and swimming, which she does currently - split 50/50 with her father) into my living costs. I don't own a car.

Despite living in my home town, there would be no-one available to cover wrap around care for DD once she starts school. All of my family work full time.

It is a bit scary and I do realise that the move will require careful planning. I like to think that if I put in some hard graft, in the near future I will be able to command a higher London salary!

Thanks again for all of the responses; reading through them has been useful and interesting.

I think you sound fab, BusyHomemaker. Really hope it works out for you and your DD. There is so much in London (and other big cities) that makes life rich and full - make the most of it.

Thank you

I am sorry OP, but I do think that you are being unrealistic with those cost estimations. £860 is ridiculously low.

Even in Catford, a room in a shared house is £695. The first studio flat that comes up is £725.
House shares in Catford

Your travel cost from there is £144 for a zone 3 monthly travel card. Even if you went PAYG thats still £90 a month (if you work 3 days a week and go up to the £7.50 cap)

If you went out to say, Walthamstow (the very furthest station on the victoria line) you are looking at £800pcm for a 1 bed flat and any lower is a house share. In both cases that's all of your budget gone before council tax, bills, food etc. London is expensive, whatever you think you are going to spend, double it! Barking/Redbridge are all the same. Someone upthread suggested Chingford which is really lovely - but its in a spread out suburb on the edge of a forest. You wont manage school runs and commute there without a car which is an additional cost.

I think you need to look at places like Stevenage/Hertford/Hitchin/St Albans. Plenty of people in my office live in these places and make the commute.

Additionally, are you bilingual? A bilingual PA usually does earn a better wage, and £35k really is the top end so I don't know what you will do to command more.
Realistic jobs on London

I think it sounds very exciting and some people are very capable of 'achieving' goals that may seem unreachable to others- you definitely sound like the former!

My brother lives in Muswell Hill and takes the route you spoke of to the City- I think it takes him an hour door to door. I know that you're looking elsewhere now but I wouldn't say that was necessary a bad thing. I frequent a lot of birthdays for my niece and nephews and we go to Alexandra Palace park with them and my DC. I find because of the level of wealth it's all a bit 'unreal', everyone's a bit polished, quite competitive in their role as 'parent'- it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, a far cry from the Greenwich that we both grew up in! I live in quite an expensive area myself and sometimes find that a bit pretentious but this is a lot worse! I would imagine it's a pretty shit experience for an older school child, if their reality is not the big house/mansion flat to invite their friend's back to. IME people are as shallow as that!

On the other hand I don't agree with whoever said that it's hard for children elsewhere in the UK to fit into London schools. I grew up in Greenwich and had access to a more exciting life as a teenager as my Dad's partner worked in a media position, with invites to great parties etc. I moved 4 hrs away from that life with my Mum when I was 16 and my life as a teenager was a lot richer, 10 x better.

Have you considered the pollution is quite bad in London as well? When I leave my DB's and can see the open countryside again I honestly can really tell the difference in air quality. However, I don't like feeling hemmed in and I'm only 50 mins away by train to London for the Museums, which we do a lot!

I add that your proposed salary is not enough to pay for rent, travel costs, childcare, and other living costs.

We live in East Dulwich (cheaper than Muswell Hill, but rents for a one bed flat still around £1500 a month) and live in a mortgaged two bed rabbit hutch. I have to ask my daughter's grandparents to provide childcare and pay their petrol costs plus a bit extra for expenses. Luckily I, and my partner, get free travel through work (I work shifts at London Underground) but service charges, ground rent and other costs are astronomical.

A weekly travelcard from Muswell Hill is £37.70 (Zones 1-3). Childcare is around £1200 a month (according to a friend who has a two year old) full time.

I would think about Brum instead. Still a fab city, with plenty to do, but much cheaper to live in.

goldenbear I totally agree with you! I am born and bred working class London. I know that wealthy "unreal" feeling at Ali Pali, I remember getting the bus there with my school mates to go skating and now its all very money.

Shopping in Wood Green with my mates at 14, getting the tube down to Camden just to look at the weird stuff on the market, rolling home on the night bus; London does give you a certain confidence. For instance I organised a hen party for some mates who were out of town and they were afraid of getting the train alone. It was so alien to me. But I cannot live anywhere else now, its ruined me - if I dont have a 24 shop within 10ft of me I get panicky! haha!

Its true mickey, growing up in London is great and it does give you more confidence. I also have friends who have never been on the tube! I think you'll like this www.buzzfeed.com/floperry/reasons-living-in-london-ruins-you-for-life#.ppXQQd7p3

OP I think you need to think really hard about the logistics of this. Some of those jobs on reed had over 100 applications!

Having mulled it over (it's currently all I can think of) I think it might be wise to make the move to Manchester instead. As PP have mentioned there's loads to do with DD there. Also, DD's dad lives in Sheffield so it would cause minimum disruption to her routine and I'd still get some me time every other weekend. The rents are only slightly higher than where we currently live and I'm pretty certain I could afford a small two bed terraced house in Sale, where the schools are excellent. The job market seems pretty active and there are great transport links into the city. Also, it would be easier for family to visit.

I do love London and imagine I always will... Sigh. I suppose it's only a two hour train ride away.

I spent a lot of time visiting family in Altrincham as a child but haven't been to Manchester in years so will need to plan a few trips there to really get a feel for the place

I do appreciate all the replies as it's helped me consider my options and the reality of just how prohibitively expensive the cost of living in London is.

eliza that link is making me miss living and working in London!

OP, you sound like a resourceful, can-do type.

Manchester sounds like a great option for you and your family. London will always be there, a two hour journey is nothing. Set aside some time and money for you and your daughter to go and enjoy it when you can, with the security of a decent quality of life elsewhere.

I wish you all the very best.

It's a lovely idea and one 3 Year old is portable.

I think you need to consider a one bed flat and move asap.

Good luck.

Someone up thread suggested Epsom, Worcester Park 2 bed flats for £750..

Not even close. £1400 if you're lucky for a 2 bed. We paid £2k for a three bed!

V wise decision, OP. Manchester is great and has changed a lot since you last visited, with media city, the Lowry, cool modern shopping district and so on. Really well connected too, and as you say, a swift train to London. Good luck!

Thanks :)

Manchester is ace and as said, only a quick ride to London so you could still visit. Hope it all goes well x