Refusal to discuss formula feeding at parentcraft class

[obeliaboo]

AIBU? Ready for the fire!
I've been told that in order for me to have a tour of my chosen hospital's delivery suite, that i need to attend 'parentcraft' classes.
Yesterday was exclusively about breastfeeding, fair enough, didnt know that of course until we got there.
So, as the midwife goes on about breastfeeding and support, I enquire what is the support for those who fall into small percentage of mums who cannot breastfeed. Simple question.
"What do you mean?".
I had to ask again, and put it across that i intend to breastfeed, but what if i cant, what if my milk doesn't come in. It happens, it happened to my eldest sister, its nothing to be ashamed of so whats the harm in asking and what is the support in that situation.
"We don't discuss artificial feeding".
Seriously?? I understand the necessity to promote breastfeeding is a priority for the NHS, because it seriously needs normalising, but to just object to even touching on the subject of formula feeding really riled me. I felt like i was at a propaganda session! She instead continued to address breastfeeding and a specific brand of electric breast bump at a specifc well known retailer.
Is this what the NHS supports? Big business's and there overpriced products (the specific one mentioned was over £100, I am not in a position to be able to afford something like that for a start), under the guise that 'breast is best', its the best start for baby - and insinuating that formula is the devil when for some poor souls, it is the only option?
AIBU for finding this absolutely snotty and condescending? There are mums out there who are underconfident, or genuinely don't lactate, mums who have gone through breastcancer and mastectomies etc, so why are these midwives refusing to even consider discussing both options.
Why make it militant and harder for those who simply can't, to speak up without feeling ashamed?
FYI this is the 3rd midwife i've had ranting at me over this.

I guess then that if the government provided services don't work for everyone, and the charities can't provide services for everyone, then there is the possibility of a user run support group? I know breast feeding workshops got all their funding cut locally, so the mum's who used it now work to provide the same service as before.

I know it's a lot of work, but I can't think of any other way to make sure there is real life support for everyone, other than that. There's definitely a good online presence for mum's needing support, whether it's feeding issues or otherwise.

Health Visitors should definitely be able to support while someone is early days and needing support too, everyone gets a HV.

I should add, that feeding a baby exclusively expressed milk is a different kettle of fish to breast feeding and formula feeding too.

With breast feeding you go by 'how long'
With formula you go by 'how much'
Expressing is different again.

Feeding breast milk by bottle therefore throws up some really different problems. You still have to get your head around sterilising (that baffled me enough, without having to make up formula!). You have to work out how often do you pump. And when. You have the mindfuck of 'am I producing enough'. You have to work out amounts and waste as little as humanly possible (amounts which are COMPLETELY different to formula). And then there's blocked ducts... and trying to fit it all around looking after a baby.

These were all things that I had no support with. So having a decent pump from the off would have been beneficial.

If breast is best, and we really should avoid formula, then why isn't there more support for expressing? And indeed mix feeding (which is another thing again). It makes no sense at all.

I do think there are underlying principles and things that can be taught quite easily for mix feeding / expressing too. And without damaging breastfeeding success rates (if anything it would probably have the opposite effect).

I have quickly glanced over this thread and OP I agree there needs to be much more support for mothers that change from BF to FF in the early days.

I felt and some days still feel awful that I couldn't BF my DC. I managed about 2 weeks of DC constantly not latching properly crying getting stressed (both of us) and generally feeling awful on my part. I could only feed successfully about 25% of the time lay on the bed. Not exactly practical.

It got to the stage that I was crying when my DC was asleep because I didn't want him to wake up. I dreaded having to try and feed him and cuddle him. I had breastfeeding consultants and support in hospital and at home but it didn't help.

Making the decision to switch was awful for me I felt like I'd failed and I cried giving the fist bottle both out of relief (he was feeing) and failure. I had a call from the HV about how feeding was going said I switched and that was it. I just wanted to cry. I felt like an awful mother and cried during every bottle the first day.

It would have been nice for HV or a group or something to have just talked it over in a positive light. Like ok you tried but changing to FF was better for you than resenting and not bonding with your baby. Obviously that was my situation and I know not everyone is the same but after discussing with friends feeling a failure is common. It would have just been nice to have people going through the same thing at the same time to discuss with.

I haven't read the entire thread but I agree with OP that the lack of support for mothers who are "failing" (and I use that with inverted comma's because as long as your baby is fed you are not failing) breastfeeding is astonishing.

I was and still am pro breastfeeding. While I was pregnant with my son I never so much as glanced at formula, hadn't a steriliser, bottle etc in the house. BF was going to work for me and there was no doubt about that. THEN I had a traumatic labour and suddenly I had this baby on my chest and realised i had NO CLUE what I was doing. The nurses tried to help and that was great but with inverted nipples, a 9lb baby and still not a drop of even clostrum after 3 days, a screaming baby who wouldn't even attempt to latch now he was so distressed, and many tears I gave him a bottle of formula and continued to do so because I just couldn't take it anymore.

I wished then that someone had told me about formula feeding, how to choose a formula, how to sterilise bottles, how to make all the new guidelines about making each bottle up on demand workable etc. I asked my HV for advise, sorry no can do she replied. I went out of my mind panicking that I wasn't doing it right. On top of the guilt I felt then and still do 20 months later I just didn't need that.

Breastfeeding is best, most definately, but when you really can't or you just don't want to, someone should be there to tell you how to do it right, when you're sleep deprived and strugging with a new born you need support whatever way you feed your baby!

Like many on here I agree that the promotion of bfing is leading many to pnd...I was hell bent on bfing why wouldn't I bf? Boobs, milk,baby, simples! But no it doesn't work out for everyone like that. After 12 wks of my baby not sleeping, losing weight, etc etc I buckled and gave her a bottle while I went at my failure. It took hypnosis and counselling to get over it and six years later I can accept that I tried but genuinely didn't have enough milk to maintain a baby. If you can breastfeed it's great, if you can't it's fine, there is too much pressure being targeted at the wrong people.

Sorry should say wept at my failure in giving her a bottle.

If breast is best, and we really should avoid formula, then why isn't there more support for expressing?

See, this is where breastfeeding promotion gets it wrong, I think. Breastmilk is obviously the optimum milk for babies, but should formula be avoided, and if so, WHY?

The answer of course, is that in promoting breastfeeding, the message gets garbled to mean "Formula is harmful". Which is wrong, but oh so pervasive.

Fact is, there's nothing wrong with formula, and there's an awful lot of pseudoscience and misinterpretation of the literature when it comes to the supposed "harms" of formula. When you account for social, genetic and environmental factors, the difference between feeding a baby breastmilk and formula is pretty minute.

We had our class yesterday, Ff was touched on long enough to say that the hospital doesn't supply formula and you'd have to take a tin of milk powder, bottles and sterilising equipment and make up milk in a strange, unfamiliar environment when exhausted from labour with a newborn on hand if you were planning on ff baby, there was no discussion past that.

seaoflove, part of my point is that if formula is so bad then why don't they support anything that reduces the amount of formula a baby has. Given our breastfeeding rates are so low, what have we got to loose?

Ultimately I think the lack of support for expressing and mix feeding is actually more telling of something else; that the horrors of formula are vastly over stated and that the ideological rather than scientific points of view are being heard most.

Boo monster, look into taking in an emergency pre done carton and pre sterilised bottle. I think newborns can have the stuff in cartons. You may not need them and I wish you all the best. However , you might, so it would be one less drama for you.

If you are going to hospital and want the reassurance of some formula "just in case", then a 6 pack of ready made formula with disposable, sterile teats costs about £8 and can tide you over until you can get BF sorted or can buy more formula supplies.

seaoflove, part of my point is that if formula is so bad then why don't they support anything that reduces the amount of formula a baby has.

I understood that But MY point was formula isn't bad, and if people are taking away the message that it IS harmful (and they are, without a doubt) then the pro-breastfeeding message is being lost in translation. Badly.

"Breast is best" does not equal "formula is harmful", but that honestly seems to be the way the message is being interpreted.

Agree with Pico. The pre sterilised teats and small jars of formula are handy as a just in case. I'm not advocating for FF over BF but I think it can be a useful thing to have to hand eg Aptamil's starter pack www.aptaclub.co.uk/article/aptamil-first-milk. I'm sure the other companies do a similar product.

Heavens. I normally get splinters in my bum on MN and never say anything controversial but fuck it.

I cannot believe that folks get so overwrought with this issue. I have no doubt that "breast is best" but chill out folks! Can you walk into a class of 5 year olds and spot the BF over FF children? Does anyone add EBF to your grave stone?

I had twins who were FF from day 1. Pushing yourself into pnd because you cannot "conform" makes me very sad and angry. Women have enough on their plates without this eternal flagellation!

You're spot on, Brassica

SadieSimmons Hey, I would have accepted something more than i can't talk about it end of yes, anything helpful. All i wanted to know, was what support was there and i dont think it would have been hard for her to just say, 'Well there is xyz hcps to advise, support and talk with you'.

Im seriously glad this has sparked such a big debate!
Im naturally inquistitive, and i just feel there needs to be a more even balance instead of judgement. Some of these posts have been really sad, really informative and the minority of negative ones have only strengthened my belief that being able to ask valid questions that people dont like, are necessary when it comes to the impending arrival and feeding of my baby.
3 weeks to go ;)

You see brassica I absolutely agree with you. But why do I still feel so crap about it?

I think I've come to terms with the fact they've thrived on formula. I feel like I've missed out on some magical mystical bond of BF though.

"Magical mystical bond"? Psfth! Want to see my crazy 3.4 yo DTs and argue that anything is missing from our relationship?

I wish everyone on this thread true inner peace and that perspective truly reigns!

I'm still waiting for someone in RL to have a go at me for FF my DDs (either they are all keyboard warriors or I am too scary to approach). If they ever do, then I'll explain that it's one of the few things I can do to level the playing field for all the other children out there .

All the best with your baby OP! I hope none of the things on this thread happen to you

WindYourBobbinUp Thank you _ even if any of them did, its nice to know there is moral support and i've a cracking MIL haha, im not going into labour with a negative mindset, just an open, terrified and excited one!

Well who needs support to breast feed? Take one hungry baby, and one milky boob and put them close together... .No one explained to my perfectly intelligent DH about formulae feeding and he may well have done some serious damage to DS1 if I hadn't intervened.

OP, I couldn't agree with you more. Yanbu. Well done for speaking out and asking the question. The response was a disgrace. Of course midwives can discuss ff while still promoting bf. can't believe the number of superior and condescending responses on here re: "the instructions are on the box" ffs. How many new mums felt that blasé about introducing solids? Of course ff mums need support, what happened to support for ALL new mothers?

In response to the nasty comments directed to the OP about the cost of the breast pump versus the cost of formula, newsflash, many of us live month to month, budgeting each month for what we have to spend. Just because we can't shell out £100 upfront, doesn't mean we can't budget £10 a month for formula.

Btw, I ebf all of mine for 18 months. But that is nobody else's fucking concern, any more than how many bags of crisis they have a week now, or how many fizzy drinks they have in a few years. If I had chosen (yes, CHOSEN) to ff, I should have the right to do that without having to justify my decision.

Metalguru thank you! Everything about that statement, just thank you!

I think FF mothers do need some sort of guidelines in how to sterilise bottle and making up a bottle.

Ds was breastfeed for 6 months, so didn't bother getting anything FF for Dd but 3 days old my milk wasn't coming and I had matistis.

I am lucky in that I had loads of experience of making and sterilising bottles, but if I didn't I would have been lost.