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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

999 replies

Bellerina2 · 09/03/2015 11:31

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life Sad

OP posts:
Arsenic · 09/03/2015 16:32

Where's the OP?

Feminine · 09/03/2015 16:34

needle yes, they'd be different amounts needed.
Or maybe not, maybe that is where the choice cones in?

ilovechristmas1 · 09/03/2015 16:34

because if you are unskilled and only going to be earning NMW and you have 2,3,4,children the differrence is tiny in £££ terms to work

thats the truth

JillyR2015 · 09/03/2015 16:34

I defy anyone to watch this week's BBC programme about the homeless www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b054dvws/no-place-to-call-home and not be appalled by how entitled these people seem. Not once have any of the children or the mothers suggested it might be the parent's own responsibility to work to keep and house themselves - just take take take, entitled, my rights etc etc No suggestion that they might have some obligation to work like the rest of us and sort out their own housing - just I have to live within 1 mile of mother. No I am responsible for my own fate. And one complaining about £30 a week rent in London !! They do not know they are born.

one complaining about not going to the park - but only because the mother cannot be bothered to take them to the park because she's smoking or doesn't want to go up and down stairs which would be very good for them all anyway.

DadOnIce · 09/03/2015 16:35

I have this instinctive-justice feeling that, in theory, nobody on benefits should be able to afford stuff that someone who works can't.

But of course, that's complicated by the fact that some people who work also quite legitimately claim some benefits. It's not always either/or.

BatteryPoweredHen · 09/03/2015 16:35

But increasing the min wage, would enable most families to do without government assistance battery

The number on people's wage slips might be bigger, but each pound they are paid will buy them fewer goods.

This is because employers pass the costs of the hike in their wage bill right back to their workers in the form of higher prices in the shops.

This is called inflation, and is something that damages the whole economy.

DadOnIce · 09/03/2015 16:38

There needs to be more education about the benefits of entering the work "system" really. It may only earn a small amount more than benefits at first and so people don't see it as "worth it". But there are so many other positive factors to being in work (self-esteem, discipline of a routine, socialising, acquiring new skills, positive role-model for kids, etc.)

OnlyLovers · 09/03/2015 16:39

Everybody seems to know one of them, or know someone who does, or to have heard of one.

I don't. And I suspect that the real figure of 'benefit scroungers' (TM Daily Mail et al) is vanishingly small.

Suzannewithaplan · 09/03/2015 16:39

inflation
oh you mean the over expanding of the money supply by 'casino banking' and all that kind of thing?

Theoldcauliflower · 09/03/2015 16:41

Wish I had a choice, my dd is hemiplegic , needs help with dressing and general stuff, her father left me when she was a baby, we have never seen a penny from him, this is not what I wanted my life to be like but at the moment while she's small and I have no help I really don't have a choice! I feel ashamed on a weekly basis and hate telling people I don't work! Don't judge anyone till you have walked in their shoes!

TeaOneSugar · 09/03/2015 16:42

I think the rest of that expression is "benefits used to be a safety net (redundancy, ill health, disability etc.) and now they're a lifestyle choice".

Some people certainly do make that choice, leaving school and essentially never working and going onto benefits, or short term work and pressure from family and peers to quit. We see it at work when we struggle to recruit and retain apprentices.

They need to be there for those who genuinely need them either permanently or as a stop gap in a crisis.

Suzannewithaplan · 09/03/2015 16:42

soon there will be very few jobs anyway, robots/computers will do most of the work and we can all wear sackcloth and ashes/beat ourselves with bunches of nettles for being lazy workshy scroungers

Lurkingforanswers · 09/03/2015 16:44

Op you mentioned benefit cheats, which ofcourse is a choice.
A case in point is someone I know who doesn't work and neither does her husbands. She is his carer,he is a blue badge holder. He also owns a shop so they have a 14plate car and at least 4 holidays per year thanks to cheating the system. I have to rely on tax credits as I can't work full time as I cant find a job within childcare hours. As others have said, I would not swap with the family in know. I don't care to an extent what others do and wouldn't report someone for benefit fraud but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be them. That's not how I'd like to live or an example I'd like my child to see. Having said that I'd also like to ad that on the other side I know of people who genuinely need benefits and are deemed to be cheating the system when the reality is far from it.

Feminine · 09/03/2015 16:44

battery
I think your 'banging head' bit is preferable.
At least you'd be paid your true worth.
Take that how you want.
There are skilledworkers on not much more than the min wage.
Employers get away with it, as they know the government will pick up the tabs.

TheJiminyConjecture · 09/03/2015 16:44

I think for every person who chooses not to work there are many, many more who would much prefer to be providing for themselves.

However, I know that a few years ago I would have been better off not working. Child care/rent/ usual bills meant that if I stayed at home I would receive more in tax credits / housing benefit etc than I earned in a month working FT in a professional career. With that logic why would anyone choose to work in a low paid, unreliable job if the outcome was the same financially? It's easy to see from the outside that by continuing to work they may get a better paid role etc but when the short term solution is easy (and it was easy a few years ago) it's not hard to see why people made their choices. Unfortunately due to changes in the economy, government etc things are becoming increasingly difficult for people and the short term easy option has been removed.

BatteryPoweredHen · 09/03/2015 16:44

Suzanne, your comment indicates just how little you understand this issue.

Suzannewithaplan · 09/03/2015 16:46

well you would say that wouldn't you Hmm

AlPacinosHooHaa · 09/03/2015 16:47

I think people fail to remember on here perhaps how bad some schools are, how poorely educated some students are, how bad everything is for them, they leave school with - nothing.

Worse than nothing they have no hope and stiff competition for even low skilled jobs - thanks to Tony Blair. Not only competing with each other, but the whole of Europe.

They have no hope, no hope of earning decent money, no hope of getting on housing ladder. Yes, the decision to have dc etc is an option open to them. Going on benefits is an option and no its not a charmed life at all.

I dont berate the young for doing it when we are a country, have shat on them in terms of shite education, poverty of aspiration and flooding the country with other young people from abroad to do the jobs they could have done, and to top it all, tell them they are lazy Confused

popalot · 09/03/2015 16:47

having been on benefits myself as a lifeline, it is frustrating when you get tarred with the same brush. But....you won't like this.....there are some people (we all know one or two) who just don't want to work and work the system. They are the people we should be angry at. Can't blame hard working people getting annoyed by this. I do think, however, that people who can but don't work have issues socialising, low self esteem,working in teams etc and need help sorting this out and getting back into work.

Feminine · 09/03/2015 16:49

My dad (68) is of the mindset that the min wage should be abolished.
He claims it will force employers to pay the true worth of the position.
I have no idea if he is on to something?
BTW, l have given his age to indicate his generation.

BatteryPoweredHen · 09/03/2015 16:49

Feminine

Economic history is littered with situations in which we have attempted to intervene in the market, all of which have proven to be disastrous.

There is an equilibrium point between supply and demand for everything (currency, goods, labour) and we interfere with it at our peril.

The only real example of market failure is that relating to provision for the environment, everything else should be left well alone.

BatteryPoweredHen · 09/03/2015 16:50

Yes Feminine! Exactly that!

JillyR2015 · 09/03/2015 16:50

ummm - we have deflation at the moment. It's a very unusual situation. Fuel prices and food are down and Governments are worrying about the implications of price falls.

ilovechristmas1 · 09/03/2015 16:54

how can a bloke own a shop and claim benefits??? Lurkingforanswers he could get his blue badge from DLA/PIP which he can claim working or not and thats hardly playing the system if he is just claiming that is he

JugglingFromHereToThere · 09/03/2015 16:54

We all make choices throughout life to the extent that we have them, and in response to the opportunities as we see them at the time.
Humans are naturally opportunistic. We need systems that support us all to reach our best/ live in the best way for ourselves and others.
Personally I'm supporting Green party policy and the Universal Citizen's Income. Also a secure Living Wage for all as a first step.