"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

[Bellerina2]

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life

Yeah, I love living on £52 a week!! This is just what I dreamt of growing up!!!!!!

I think it is a choice in some ways but it's because it's the only choice. If you've gone through school with little or no parental help, support or expectations; have no qualifications; get pregnant and have no drive then why would you chose to make your life much harder trying to sort childcare or get qualifications. If all you see around you is a cycle of joblessness then what's the other option. I see lots of young women where I work, they don't work, they have young children, they have few or no qualifications. What are their other options? To break this cycle demands tremendous gumption.

Lurkingforanswersow how is it fact when YOU said yourself you DID NOT know if the shop was in his name

how is that fact

Dadonice

it isn't as simple as that though and for the record the benefits you list for working you can achieve just as easily through not working.
We need to educate some people about how benefits work especially tax credits.
It isn't just a case of choosing not to work, its the fact that for some working doesn't only pay but actually costs.
Nobody in their right mind would pay to go to work would they?
There is also the fact that for some people employment would mean they actually took more out of the pot than they actually do and if low paid still wouldn't be putting any in.
This is a point that has to be raised in response to those who believe a sahp should not be supported by other tax payers.

Ilove she doesn't.
lurking I post on many of these threads because there are people like you. I don't take it personally, but I do think it important to have facts, figures and evidence. The fraud rate for DLA is less than 0.5%. That figure is provided by the DWP. That would be why I find it unlikely.
Apart from that, you provided no evidence other than your say so. Anecdates are not evidence.

Adam Smith and the invisible hand of the market, is that really your understanding of the economy Batteryhen, leave it all to unfettered market forces???

should say working doesn't only not pay.

BOUNCINGBELLE - £52 a week?

No HB, free prescriptions, CB, TC, WTC?? Gosh.

It is certainly a lifestyle choice for 2 people I know. One is a qualified teacher, but won't teach because "it's too much work".

ilovechristmas you know very well that all this "calm down dear" thing you say is goady, patronising and winds people up.
So - job done.
Enough.

About people getting more in benefits than others receive from working:
Wages are the going rate for the job
Benefits pay a series of personal allowances and premiums, depending on the persons needs. So you get more or less depending on your circumstances.
Because of this: it can happen that one individual receives more in benefits than another does working. For example if the benefit claimant has a number of dependants and some health problems and the working person is healthy and single.
In the most part the benefit system is set up to ensure that noone receives more in benefits than a worker in the same circumstances. In other words- everyone should be better off in work. So a disabled person with dependants should be better off on a mix of wages and tax credits than on ESA, for example.
It doesn't always work because some benefits (notably Housing Benefit) "taper" very sharply. The taper is the amount the benefit reduces in response to increases in other income.
Also- there are costs involved in taking work (travel, work clothes, lunches etc) that can eat up the difference.
Further- its not always possible to predict whether you will be better off in work or not due to the complexity of the system and the potential for gaps in payment due to the system dealing inefficiently with changes in circumstances.
Tackle these issues and we will see more people "choosing" to work, I'm sure.

Needle, 'These things are not the fault of the rest of the country, they are the fault of parents ... issues that are hard to deal with like lack of aspiration and negative behaviour amongst a child's peers, but that comes back down to parents doing a bad job.'

I don't understand how you're separating out these parents from 'the rest of the country'. These parents are PART OF 'the country', are they not? Chronic lack of education, confidence and aspiration are a social problem IMO.

i will say what i like thanks,she was accussing me of calling her a liar and couldnt back up her argument

if you have a problem with my post's report

52.00 a week. no HB. free prescriptions, CB (ah - no kids)
52.oo and no rent would have been a dream for me. Oh no not possible because I had a job

I know two people who have chosen a benefits lifestyle - and admit it. I think their lives are pretty shit to be honest and I don't envy them. I can see why people like them cause frothing, particularly from those who earn very little but work very hard. Personally I am more angry at a system which props up big corporations getting away with paying workers a pittance, so that we have to top up the wages while the shareholders and fat cats get the 'profits'. The form of free market capitalism we have simply doesn't work well for the majority of people but really rewards a tiny minority.

"I have explained to both of you that these people claiming fraudulently is fact."
Lurking With respect: unless you know this couples full circumstances, the entitlement conditions for all the benefits they receive and the legal elements of the offence of benefit fraud, you can't possibly know this as a "fact".
Benefit fraud doesn't mean- "getting benefits when I don't think they should" and several posters have pointed out circumstances which might allow them to claim legitimately.
I hope you confine your gossip to anonymous internet sites

Jeez this is getting bitchy.

£52.00 per week to attempt to survive on wouldn't be the 'dream' of anybody but a cretin.

ilove calm down, dear.

Emmeline

Aren't you the lucky one, how on earth do you know the circumstances of bouncingbelle
If you are that bitter, try it yourself.

It is entirely possible that the poster concerned has £52.00 after rent. It is entirely possible that she has children, but child benefit counts as 'money you already have coming in' ergo, no child benefit, in effect.
And before you say you'd like that after rent, bear in mind we don't know what it has to go on.

Imo there's a world of difference between "choosing" to live on benefits in, say, a former mining town in Wales and in London. In the former, I can imagine that it may be hard to find decent permanent work. In London, however, and indeed in much of the south east, there is work. Plenty of work. And I know a good few people who do play the system and have no intention of working.

One relative lives with her boyfriend in a very nice Victorian conversion in sought-after town. Neither works. In fact the boyfriend is 30 and has never worked - ever. The flat is paid for by housing benefit and the girl's father (who is wealthy) pays for everything - new car, nice clothes etc etc. Why should the taxpayer be paying for a flat for two people who just fancy doing online gaming all day? I just don't get it. A couple both working in ordinary jobs would not be able to afford to live in that flat.

Feminine
My dad (68) is of the mindset that the min wage should be abolished.He claims it will force employers to pay the true worth of the position

if there is a shortage of labour and a surplus of jobs then yes employers would have to compete for workers and pay better wages.

but this is patently not the case
there is a large reserve of jobless people, employees only have leverage if they have skills which are in short supply.
Increasingly the jobs available are unskilled.
With no minimum wage employers would pay the absolute minimum that they can get away with since the raison d'être of business is to maximise profit

You are talking about bankers right?

Shall we swap?
You can be up most of the night and at meetings/medical appointments most days and I'll go to work?

Zero effort. Do behave.