"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

[Bellerina2]

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life

Why are my examples bizarre?
Because you didn't mean 'people like me'?
Because my examples are irrelevant because they're 'genuinely deserving'?

They're not irrelevant. Because despite what most posters here think regarding who is most deserving it doesn't work like that in the real world.

'People like me' - people with disabilities, their carers and others you might consider 'genuinely deserving' in your little bubble are STILL being hit by the cuts, disabled people far worse and disproportionately to claimants of other benefits.

Policy is against us. And all the anti benefit rhetoric and distortion about the number of people 'choosing' this way of life - and there is a small minority who are made more vocal by bloody channel 5 the media - makes it even worse.

Your ex is lucky he hasn't been caught, worksallhours since housing benefit start to withdraw support at £6000 and stop paying altogether when someone has £16000. That's total savings whether in a savings account or in the current. Didn't they ever ask for his bank statements?

When I finally got a job after university (and even then only just because people thought I was overqualified) after a month I sat down and did the maths and realized I would actually have been better off on benefits. Between rent, council tax, commuting and trying to feed myself and pay bills I was completely skint. Maybe we should try paying people a decent living wage.

Maybe we should try paying people a decent living wage. Amen to this. Someone upthread said she was shocked at someone managing on £16k (net) a year in benefits. Millions of people in the UK work full time for far less than this and are then taxed on it.

speech consisting of strung together cliches is a lifestyle choice for so many these days

It isn't just the benefit either it is all the added benefits where you don't see the actual money that can make a difference to whether you work or not and your family circumstances.
I don't want to work as it wouldn't be either financially or emotionally benefitting to my family, the fact we receive tax credits is immaterial in some respects.
When UC comes in and people in my present situation lose out (I say present as its due to change in September) they will in effect be working for nothing, or even costing them to work, so how can this be helpful?

Surely if people work and still earn only about £50 a month (or whatever it was that posters upthread said) more than they would if they were on benefits then it's a sign that the living wage has to be increased rather than benefits decreased?

It is a lifestyle choice though, for a not insignificant number of claimants.

The problem is that people see that working will net them the same income as not working, and infer from this that the two are the same, thus ignoring the fact that if they work then they are supporting themselves, but by not working, the rest of us are supporting them.

I used to volunteer at an advice-giving organisation and it constantly amazed me how few people understood that the state doesn't actually have any money of its own, it is merely a redistribution vehicle.

We need to make benefits a lot less comfortable and go some way towards reintroducing the stigma that used to exist in days of old. I am donning my flame-retardant pants before saying this, but I think food stamps instead of cash payments would be an excellent start.

I was in a similar situation as Fickle.
When all my bills were paid (and I had what you would say was a good, professional job) I had 8.00 a week left over.
I used to take my prescriptions to the chemist and ask for something similar, but cheaper. I couldn't afford spectacles, or a bottle of wine on a weekend. A newspaper. Just normal things. It costs just the same same to heat a room for one person as it does for any more.
I have never been entitled to Benefits.
As a single person, it is very difficult to manage.
Is it true that if you have a child, then you have a right to accommodation ? Can your utilities be cut off ?
Does that apply to single people ?
Not axe-grinding here, honestly. Just interested.

im on longterm benefits healthwise,when i changed from Jsa to esa and pip my money nearly doubled overnight

oh god not the food stamps argument

They're bizarre because nobody disputed that people have genuine need to be on benefits. Not everyone does though!

but by not working, the rest of us are supporting them

indeed, we are also supporting employers who pay less than a living wage so that employee's need to claim benefits in order to make ends meet.

lets not forget that we also support unsustainably high rents by paying housing benefits for people whose low wages mean they cannot afford the full cost of a roof over their heads.

the part of the whole system that you blame depends more on your ideological stance than any objective assessment of who is really to blame

Food stamps help bring about even more stigma for recipients.
I lived in the US along time. During this period l posted quite a bit on an American mums forum. It was absolutely heartbreaking to discover that most of the posters were in favour - and to quite an extreme.
For example, only raw ingredients should be permitted.
Flour
Oats etc...
Slightly off subject, but l am sure someone will suggest that soon.

blame the people at the bottom, it must be their fault that they are there, after all we do live in a meritocracy dont we

It is offensive to lump working tax credit and child tax credit with benefits paid to those who are work shy.

And this is why the last labour government did such a good marketing job.

Working tax credits are an unfortunate necessity. Childcare related child tax credits are an unfortunate necessity. The disability element of child tax credits are a legitimate expense.

Child tax credits that are paid out so that people can choose to have a SAHP on the back of the welfare bill are not necessary, and they are what has led so many people to believe the rubbish that tax credits are not benefits, or that they are actually some kind of credit of tax. They are not. They are paid to people who could choose to work, and who often pay no tax.

The whole thing was about labour trying to create generations of people dependant on handouts, while being incredibly dishonest, at the same time running up a debt that we can't afford.

So how many people is it then?

Many people here saying well obviously it's lots...or not many...

HOW MANY?

Wouldn't it be surprising if the numbers aren't even know...

needle so you must be in favour with the government implementing a living wage then?

Increasing the minimum wage would be purely inflationary and have no impact at all on purchasing power.

See Wage/Price Spiral

When my children were small and I divorced my ex, I was on benefits as a single parent. It's not a lifestyle I would choose. I can see some might, but not because they are scroungers. Often people will lack skills and confidence to get back into work. I know I did. After a long absence from work I lost a lot of confidence and had to get back in to training before getting a job again.
It seems to be common today to believe anyone on benefits is a waster or not trying hard enough. It was bad enough when I was claiming but I would dread being in that position today. The Government and media have brainwashed people into believing benefits is the cause of all our woes. It makes me angry.

But increasing the min wage, would enable most families to do without government assistance battery

One of the things I loathe this government for is the demonisation of the poor and those on benefits.

I think I'm supposed to admire them for their hardline cuts, and the fact that people are being 'forced off benefits' but in fact I find them utterly despicable for the deliberate campaign to cause division and whip up a storm of negativity around those in need of help.

I think Cameron, Osbourne and IDS are a trilogy of evil this is in no way an overstatement and are using horrendous treatment of the least privileged in our society to gain political ground.

needle so you must be in favour with the government implementing a living wage then?

In theory, yes. But a living wage is different things to different people. A living wage for someone who lives with their parents or in a shared home is going to be less than a living wage for a single parent with three children to support.

What should people be able to afford on a living wage?

In general it is a good thing that we have a benefits system, to help prevent people from falling through the cracks when they are temporarily without work. It's just that - undeniably - there's a small minority of people who abuse the system and try to screw it, and basically just see it as "free money".

These people aren't typical of the vast majority of benefit claimants, who actually want to work and want to be paid a living wage for working.

Unfortunately, the small piss-taking group aren't just a figment of the Daily Mail's imagination - that's the awkward truth, the elephant in the room. They exist. Everybody seems to know one of them, or know someone who does, or to have heard of one. And it seems incomprehensible - especially if you've ever been unemployed and looking for work yourself, and know how hard it is. You can't really understand how anyone, even such a small minority, can afford, say, holidays while on benefits, or a new TV.

I was unemployed for a bit, in my mid-20s, and it wasn't nice. You're made to feel a second-class citizen and you're berated for not applying for jobs which are completely unsuitable for you - and you know they are, because you are better educated and better informed than the person behind the desk... I certainly didn't treat myself to any luxuries during my 6 months of being economically inactive - no car, no mobile phone, no new TV, no DVDs, no meals out, no holiday. I didn't feel I was allowed these things unless I worked.

And so you wonder, not unreasonably, how the hell anyone manages to make a "lifestyle" out of it, given how bloody difficult you remember it being!

what should people be able to afford on a living wage
Imo, everything.
Food, housing, clothing... Bills paid.