Aibu to think the parents of the Syria girls need to take a bit more responsibility?

[exmrs]

On the news today the parents are demanding an apology from the police as the police knew apparently a friend of theirs had already gone to Syria and the police didn't contact them.
I find it strange that they don't take a bit more responsibility to the situation.

Why didn't they know what was going on in in their daughters lives?
They are the parents and they seem to blame everyone but themselves or the girls.
To blame the police is ridiculous , the girls made the choice to go

If these young women were brought up not to argue with or challenge their parents and elders, and if being quiet and obedient were seen as desirable qualities in young women then I don't imagine political debate across the dinner table would be encouraged either. So how would the parents be aware that their daughters were being radicalised?

Well, that is unfortunately a downside to particular cultures/religions/parenting styles. If this is how parents raise their children, they should really be considering that they are raising them to be vulnerable!

And if the parents don't notice anything going amiss with their children, why the hell should police and authorities be held accountable?

As the OP says, the parents do need to be taking more responsibility, especially if this is how they are raising their children.

I'm not understanding the 'how else could they have communicated with the parents except by letter?' argument. By email? By phonecall? My sons's school has all these on file, and I imagine any parent would be fine with the police having them too in the case of a possible endangerment issue.

Sending 'watch out for the signs of grooming' letters home with teens who were prime candidates for grooming was ridiculous. Once they were in contact it would have been easy for someone to physically pass them new mobile phones. And then what do parents do, pat our teenagers down at the door? This isn't a case of 'I found a lump of plastic in my burger, give me money' blame culture, I think that is actually a disgusting phrase to use in these circumstances.

I agree - it's not rocket science! How did the young people get hold of their passports? The parents are responsible for their children not the police - but perhaps border control ought to check under age travellers who are not travelling with their parents...

Out of interest, how many parents here keep the family passports under lock and key ?

Ours are in a little Velcro shutting box in the drawer in the thingie right by the most likely exit point in case of a fire.... with all the other important papers which are in an easy to grab folder.

I've just been to have a look. They are still there. But I don't check on them daily. Or even monthly.

I don't think this would happen ...

"At least then other parents might turn around and think... "hmm, it is my responsibility to ensure my children are being raised in a loving, secure home, educated and encouraged to be open with me.""

I think people would pile on the blame and by making the parents into 'the other' not one of us, not 'our kind of parents', people would feel reassured it would never happen to them.

I'd love to be proved wrong but people don't want to hear it could happen to them/ anyone. People will find and cling to anything that makes life seem more controllable and less terrifying than it really is. Hence the 'othering' of lots of different types of people, if they're not like us, then somehow we're immune from the bad thing happening to us.

I do think it was absolutely ridiculous (given the nature of their concern about the girls) that the police gave them letters to pass on to their parents to request permission to interview them, and then did not follow those up with a home visit when they received no reply.

However, that apart, I agree completely that the families seem too keen to push the responsibility onto the school, the police, the intelligence services, the airport security services and just about everyone else but themselves and their daughters for this.

I know teenagers can be very secretive, but when one of m teenagers has been behaving in a particularly suspicious, secretive or evasive manner I have been on it like a shot, even if I haven't had much of a clue about what was going on, I have always known when something is going on.

I find it very hard to believe that the parents and older siblings had absolutely no idea that they were showing certain political leanings and sympathies, yet they let them go off abroad on their own, to Turkey of all places, apparently to some random person's 'wedding.'

At 15 years old.

Are they completely stupid?

And yes nora I feel pretty much the same about the Rotherham girls, if not more so, the girls were younger. Why didn't the parents have any idea what their children were doing, where they were going and with who?

I guess you missed the panorma program showing desperate parents pleading with anyone and everyone to help them, and it all fell on deaf ears hence massive internal inquiries and national out rage. People not listening was one of hte major problems.

Totally different scenario here.

Teens do stupid things whether they are white, black, christian or muslim

Yes I know - I was one once, many moons ago. Ive also got one and had another one whos now in his 20s. Of all the stupid, impulsive etc things they have ever did nothing comes close to running away to a different country to join a terrorist organisation who are murdering people, including citizens of the country you come from.

isn't this normal though now?
people seem to blame others all the time, it is never their fault.
of cause not all the fault lies with the parents, I feel very sorry for them, but we do now have a culture where people shift the blame all the time.

Hubbins glad this made you

No, obviously I understand they're British citizens .. I used the word "Should". I was highlighting the need for change in this country.

Teenagers do stupid things so you have to keep a close eye on them even as you give them more independence. After someone from the school had run off the parents should have been very carefully monitoring them. Wouldn't you?

I was highlighting the need for change in this country.

It's foolish and, more importantly, absolutely unworkable to strip British citizens of their citizenship because of criminal acts.

I wouldn't envy the police in trying to deal with this as some muslim families could equally be insulted by this and hit back with the "we are not all terrorists" and then reduce their engagement.

Sending 'watch out for the signs of grooming' letters home with teens who were prime candidates for grooming was ridiculous. Once they were in contact it would have been easy for someone to physically pass them new mobile phones.

It's a learning curve for all agencies involved. Unintended consequences are likely to be part of said curve.

One thing that did occur to me is the extent to which the letters may have been a catalyst to act sooner rather than later, or risk getting caught by parents and having all modes of communication with the recruiters cut off. A feeling of all the excitement about to be squished out of existence and a return to boring old reality of studying for exam etc. may have accidentally created an additional push to actually go rather than just talk about it.

If the girls told the people grooming them about the letters I don't think it is too much of a stretch that they might have been keen hike up the pressure on the girls to get out asap rather than risk them being found out and lost as recruits at best, or becoming a source of damaging information at worst.

Or possibly the girls may have felt they were in too deep to get out without serious long term ramifications at home and with the police (who unintentionally just informed them they were on the radar, even though not actual suspects yet) and ... well it could have become a bit of a perfect storm at some point.

None of which is much use to the families of these girls. But trying to unpick it might go some way to avoiding more families being in this godawful situation.

Hadn't a girl already skipped from the school, wouldn't their community be aware of that and hence been especially vigilant? e.g passports.

I think it was absolutely ridiculous (given the nature of their concern about the girls) that the police gave them letters to pass on to their parents to request permission to interview them, and then did not follow those up with a home visit when they received no reply.

There must be all sorts of reasons why the police didn't pursue them further, but I imagine a big one must be not wanting to be accused of victimising or harrassing schoolgirls who "don't want to get involved", "are being victimised and singled out for being Muslim" etc etc.

But bringing up girls with the attitude that they are living in an alien culture/society where the food 'they' eat, gods they worship/or not, clothes they wear, music and entertainment they enjoy are all wrong/evil/indecent/ whatever, and as long and you cover your hair, eat halal, avoid boys/other groups, don't become 'westernised' and don't disgrace your dad... That's just not right

This is what perplexes me seeing as its mainly other muslims that are being killed, so why choose the evil violent oppressing side, not those muslims who are being displaced and persecuted?

A parent was on tv show a while back and he said soemthing like " I understand you feel you want to go and help but please, your not trained fighters dont go and be their fodder, go and help in other ways yes but please do not fght" the presents and a man from Quillam had to very quickly say - helpng in anyway - is not permissable!

I would assume the parents weren't looking out for signs that their children were going to run off to Syria as they would never have imagined it was a possibility. How many of us would?

I was raped at 14 and my parents didn't know until I told them years later. Teenagers are great at hiding stuff when they want to and a lot of 'red flags' are often palmed off as normal teenage moody behaviour/hormones.

I would imagine these parents are absolutely beside themselves. They've lost their children for fucks sake. I'm sure they're flaming themselves in private. Have some compassion.

Now that there's private browsing, how can anyone possibly monitor their teenager's internet usage?

Em

I don't think the letters were a catalyst. They were only given out 15 days before the girls left, it would have taken longer than that to apply for a visa for them to enter Turkey.

And as far as I can discern from the news, the letters were enquiries for any infomation regarding the girl that went to Syria in December. It was clearly stated that the girls themselves were NOT on any radar, or suspected of anything untoward. So, seriously, even if the parents HAD received the letters, what difference would it have made?

• EmEyeFaive Mon 09-Mar-15 11:05:43 great post I agree but still think parents can blame themselves too to a degree.

Nameforposting Mon 09-Mar-15 11:31:35

awful just awful. am dreading all this.

I know it sound silly but this is why I like film Escape To Witch Mountain because it is for DC and it does illustrate people offering their desires might not be all they seem. there is always a price to pay.

Foolish??
More foolish perhaps to tolerate terrorism in our nation..

When this first happened I felt quite sorry for the parents. Now I don't. I couldn't believe it when I read they want an apology from the police. More like lock up the lot of them and investigate them thoroughly to see if they have any extremist leanings. It's this softly softly approach over the years that has led to this current situation IMHO.

I just can't get over the fact that one of the girls get in the morning with luggage to go to a cousin's wedding, and the parents believed her.

Was is half term?

And surely they would know the cousins, was there really a wedding?