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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that a 'gay gene' is not responsible for this?!

135 replies

LeslieKnopeForPresident · 04/03/2015 20:42

I've namechanged as this might out me (no pun intended...)

To put this bluntly, I come from a very gay family. My grandparents have 3 lots of grandchildren - me and my siblings (3 of us), and 6 cousins between two of my aunties. So 9 of us together.

Out of 9 of us - 7 are gay. And I include myself in one of the two 'straight' ones, despite actually having had a (secret - my family dont know) relationship with a female when I was early 20s. I'm now late 20s and married to a man.

My gran insists that there must be a 'gay gene' Confused AIBU to think that this is absolute nonsense? AIBU to think that the most logical explanation - should one even be needed - is that none of us have grown up around healthy functional marriages or relationships? AIBU to think that the fact that we have all witnessed many family breakdowns and there are 2 absent fathers, is most likely the reason if there is one at all?!

I'm obviously not going to say that to my old gran, but goodness me - do 'gay genes' exist?!

OP posts:
Bilberry · 05/03/2015 07:20

Being born gay doesn't make it automatically genetic; children with foetal alcohol syndrome are born that way but it is caused by the environment in the womb (mother's drinking). Environmental effects can also start before conception; eg,. Smoking can have an influence on grandchildren. These affects also interact with genetics. It is not sonething we can escape. I agree it is odd that people think it can't be this but must just be 'natural' - that is how 'nature' works!

Fairydustandpancakes · 05/03/2015 07:26

Wow. Perhaps you didn't mean to be offensive but really, you maybe should have thought about how your op would have come across before posting.

Being gay is not a choice, it's an inbuilt 'feature' - as is different to every individual. The same goes for choosing to snog a girl friend on a night out - it's a choice - doesn't mean your gay, just means you're open to experimenting. Your post reminds me of when someone says a racist comment and then takes it back by saying "no no, i'm not racist - my cousin's best friend's sisters black and I shared my lunch with her once...!"

Some people - like wfrances' great aunt - CHOOSE to be with women - doesn't neessarily mean that they're gay. Just as some people get into relationships for financial and security reasons. To say that a traumatic experience can alter someone's inbuilt human nature is deeply insulting (I am gay btw - never been with a man EVER - and closer to my dad than mum. In fact, my mum is a moo bag.... So there you go - no traumatic sexual experiences here.) I also have lesbian friends from completely run of the mill, 2.4 children, mum and dad happy families shock horror.

So to answer your op - Being gay is definitely nature. Whether it's a gene or pure coincidence, I have no idea. But what I do know is that people choose to come out (there are thousands of people who are gay who may never come out) and you choose who you sleep with. That may be out of curiosity, or bad experiences and therefore security. Those people come under the bisexual or open minded category.... My bad relationship with my mum didn't turn me against women and my ex was the most nasty, controlling person i'm ever likely to meet - still, you won't see me hopping into bed with a man because of it.

Treaclepot · 05/03/2015 07:32

In terms of nature /nurture I think there can be some middle ground.

Personally I think gayness/straightness is a bit of a spectrum. If the household and society you are brought up in is more liberal it makes it easier to explore not being 'straight'.

BallsforEarrings · 05/03/2015 07:52

My step son says he knew he was gay from a very early age - around 4 or 5 years old.

His friend also says he knew from early childhood.

Beholdtheflorist · 05/03/2015 08:00

I feel a bit sorry for the OP as I sort of understand her reasoning in trying to make sense of a family that's a bit of a statistical anomaly. However I also get that working from the theory that the overwhelming gayness came from negative experiences would miff a lot of people.

It's true that there are lots of gay people who grew up in dysfunctional families which may have shaped their sexuality. I know a fair few women who've chosen to have relationships with other women due to political or feminist ideals but i also think that sexuality is something personal and hard to quantify. I've no idea why I'm a lesbian, I just am.

I'm very reluctant to embrace a gay gene theory, but that's mostly because I fear the notion that it could be identified and then eradicated.

I do feel for the OP as I don't believe she meant to appear negative about sexuality and it's never nice to have lots of people shouting at you. But as someone whose been out for 30 years and been on the end of some appalling homophobia (back in the 80s it was perfectly acceptable to fire someone from their job for being gay), i cant help being delighted to see an overwhelmingly heterosexual audience pointing and saying "you absolute bastard" at the notion that being gay might be a bit wrong. It fills my heart with joy to see how the landscape has shifted.

Dawndonnaagain · 05/03/2015 08:58

This is a very common theory, OP. Do take a look at google scholar, there are many, really very interesting articles, positing the gay gene theory.

SurlyCue · 05/03/2015 09:26

Surely if there is a gay gene it is actually just a sexuality gene. That everyone has! Or are people saying that gay people are born with an extra gene that straight people dont have? But that makes no sense as straight people have a sexual orientation too so they must have a gene thag dictates that. So isnt it more likely that most of us have the same sexuality gene and that it will be somewhere different on the spectrum/continuum of sexuality for all of us?

Greythorne · 05/03/2015 11:13

People are offended at the thought that environment 'causes' gayness and offended that genes 'cause' gayness.

So if it isn't genes and it isn't environment, what else could it possibly be?

LilyTheSlink · 05/03/2015 11:27

I think the dysfunctional family bit as a "cause" sounds like bollocks.

Yes, there may be a genetic component.

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/largest-ever-study-into-the-gay-gene-erodes-the-notion-that-sexual-orientation-is-a-choice-9875855.html

If there's a genetic component in your family, maybe that is a cause of the breakdown of heterosexual relationships?

BumgrapesofWrath · 05/03/2015 11:35

Just for the record, I have a gay friend who thinks he's gay as he had an awful relationship with his father and he believes he's attracted to men as he wants the acceptance and love off men that he didn't have growing up.

Nomama · 05/03/2015 11:41

Sorry Lily, I missed page 4... Smile

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 05/03/2015 11:43

We had a perfectly normal family and I'm pansexual but engaged to a man, my brother is gay and my sister is straight. I think it's something that is a mix of genetics, environment and just who you are.

BumgrapesofWrath · 05/03/2015 11:44

Just to add to my earlier comment - I think there is the scientific "will" and a will in society for "gayness" to be genetic as then it allays any blame towards the parents.

I am sexual submissive and like being spanked. My father is a very domineering man. Surely these two things are connected, as "icky" as that seems? And I assume this of all sexual pecadillos.

Nomama · 05/03/2015 11:52

pansexual, moomin? Sounds as though you are hoping for a few more options Smile

I hadn't seen this as allaying any idea of blame, more as another 'obviousness' that yet another behaviour has a genetic predisposition that may or may not be triggered by social factors - just like under/overweight and whole host of other behaviours we now know are underpinned - but not controlled/dictated - by our genes.

adsy · 05/03/2015 12:00

I think that if people are saying that people are born gay then there is no logic to saying that being gay can't be genetic.
FWIW I believe that environmental factors can play a part as well.
Many people "turn" gay in prison. Surely as a result of environment.

BumgrapesofWrath · 05/03/2015 12:01

Yy I agree to behaviours being "underpinned" by genes. However, I don't agree with the simplistic interpretation of homosexuality being genetic, as is put forward by the majority of posters on this thread.

adsy · 05/03/2015 12:06

wtf is pansexual?!

Nomama · 05/03/2015 12:11

It is disheartening, isn't it? For a couple of decades the information about the strength of our genes on our behaviour has been out here in the media, on telly, newspapers, blogs etc etc.

Yet no media source has been able to explain the idea in a way that makes the information easily accessible to everyone. It seems destined to remain part of that 'voodoo' science that spawns huge and complex mythologies.

Basically, we all have behavioural genes that make us more likely to respond in certain ways when we are exposed to a wide range of social factors - that is nature being triggered by nurture.

Some people with the fat gene will never trigger it, will never meet the right social factor and so will never over eat. Others are less fortunate and encounter just the right social factors that will trigger them to overeat and become overweight/obese.

There is now a heavy weight of science that suggests that being gay is much the same.

I would be interested to look at the % of humans who do have the gene.... compared with the % of gay population... could be an eye opening paper to read!

ocelot41 · 05/03/2015 12:22

I find this all a bit confusing. I am bi. Would that mean I had a family who were sometimes functional and sometimes not? Or both functional and dysfunctional at the same time.

Honestly, I don't really care what 'causes' gayness. What matters is peace, love and understanding, man ( or woman, y'know, depending..)

Gruntfuttock · 05/03/2015 12:23

"Surely that can't be down to monkey lion patenting."

Confused If that's a typo I can't work out what for.

ReallyTired · 05/03/2015 13:26

"Surely that can't be down to monkey lion patenting."

Sorry grunt, that will teach me to use an IPAD for mumsnet. My point is that homosexuality exists across the animal kingdom. I don't think that homosexuality can be blamed on bad parenting. Maybe having outstanding parenting makes an adult brave enough to admit that they have feelings for someone of the same sex.

For those who are offended by the suggestion that homosexuality is genetic or enviromental, do you see homosexuality as a bad thing? Why does it matter if a child grows up to be gay? Personally I would feel that I had failed as a mother if my child could not feel comfortable in their own skin and accept themselves for who they are.

WineListPlease · 05/03/2015 20:14

If you believe people are born gay, then you do believe it's genetic. That's a definition.
No, there are lots of conditions that are caused during pregnancy and childbirth, that have no genetic factors. The number of older brothers that the mum has carried, may well influence the proportions of hormones the foetus is exposed to.

Many people "turn" gay in prison. Surely as a result of environment.
Not really, I think that's more of a means to an end. If they had the option of their preferred sexual partner, they would take it.

GallicIsCharlie · 05/03/2015 20:48

Then you'd be talking about gestational epigenetics, Wine, which can affect gene expression. I'm at the limit of my knowledge here, and not in the mood to learn more tonight. But my understanding is that "genetic" means a hell of a lot more than "your ancestry dictates it."

WineListPlease · 05/03/2015 20:54

But there are conditions that have absolutely no genetic connection whatsoever, like cerebral palsy. Children are born with it, but genetic plays no part in it. It may affect brain development without affecting the genes.