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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that a 'gay gene' is not responsible for this?!

135 replies

LeslieKnopeForPresident · 04/03/2015 20:42

I've namechanged as this might out me (no pun intended...)

To put this bluntly, I come from a very gay family. My grandparents have 3 lots of grandchildren - me and my siblings (3 of us), and 6 cousins between two of my aunties. So 9 of us together.

Out of 9 of us - 7 are gay. And I include myself in one of the two 'straight' ones, despite actually having had a (secret - my family dont know) relationship with a female when I was early 20s. I'm now late 20s and married to a man.

My gran insists that there must be a 'gay gene' Confused AIBU to think that this is absolute nonsense? AIBU to think that the most logical explanation - should one even be needed - is that none of us have grown up around healthy functional marriages or relationships? AIBU to think that the fact that we have all witnessed many family breakdowns and there are 2 absent fathers, is most likely the reason if there is one at all?!

I'm obviously not going to say that to my old gran, but goodness me - do 'gay genes' exist?!

OP posts:
lljkk · 04/03/2015 21:42

Lots of very straight people grew up in families with very dysfunctional unstable relationships and very absent fathers. Which disproves in my mind the suggested dysfunctionality link.

I think very occasionally people turn out gay, at least they sort of think they are and try to live that way, because of sexual abuse when young (by a same sex person). It's a very confused sexual identity, though, with them trying to resolve what the hell happened to them. That's the only time I think environment comes into it.

I've got 30 first cousins... All the 'gayness' in my extended family is concentrated as the children & grandchildren of just one of my step-grandmothers, who managed 50+ yrs in her 2nd marriage to same man. it's not looking dysfunctional, it is looking genetic.

Buttyfly · 04/03/2015 21:44

Dysfunctional families can sometimes be 'freer' families, in that the children can be exposed to more, controlled less. Perhaps this makes them more open to experimentation. Maybe we all have gayness but don't express it.

I don't think it's necessarily a genetic thing though. I think I read something quite convincing about a woman's body producing female hormones in response to the presence in her body of a male foetus, which is why the last of several boys is statistically more likely to be gay.

geekymommy · 04/03/2015 21:46

Another problem is that "dysfunctional family" can mean a lot of different things. And there isn't a simple questionnaire we can go through to see if a family is dysfunctional or not.

Yet another problem is that the idea of what is a good marital relationship has changed over time (and, again, there isn't a simple way to figure out who has one and who doesn't). A relationship where the partners don't strongly conform to traditional gender roles would be seen quite differently now than it would have in 1960, for example.

pineappleshortbread · 04/03/2015 21:48

I dont think you can pin being straight or gay down to one factor. We are all different and unique so for some sexuality maybe be a genetic predisposition to being straight or gay fpr others it could be environmental and for some both. I could also purely be psychological and something we cannot measure.
A problem comes when we start trying to find a 'reason' for someones sexuality when really none exists and doesnt need to. By saying there is a reason such as nature or nurture it implies that something is wrong or needs to be 'cured' and predicted and measured.
Sexuality should never fall under that category so therefore we shouldnt be searchong for a reason as to why people love who they love.

Bilberry · 04/03/2015 21:50

I suspect it is a complex interaction of genes and environment that defines sexuality. Being 'born gay' of course doesn't rule out environment either - the environment in the womb has a huge influence on development in so many ways.

ouryve · 04/03/2015 21:53

Are all these gay people in your family female, OP? Because, if not, your theory about the offputting men in your family doesn't even hold water.

LeSaor · 04/03/2015 21:55

Is it not more likely that the people who "turn gay because of abuse" were in fact bisexuals with a strong unconscious preference for another gender, who then made the conscious decision to only go with people from their same gender.

ReallyTired · 04/03/2015 22:30

I think that sexual orientation is a bit like being left or right handed or ambidextrous. Being gay or straight is like a continum ie the average hetrosexual mumsnetter might be 98% straight and 2% gay. Bisexual person might be 50% 50%. Genetics are complex sometimes genes remain inactive unless switched on by enviroment. For example conditions like schzoprehna or autism can be influenced by enviromental factors. (Possibly diet or vaccine damage rather than parenting)

Why does it bother you that their might be a gay gene? I imagine there are lots of genes involved in someone's personality.

OverTheHandlebars · 04/03/2015 22:39

The idea that coming from a dysfunctional family causes people to be gay is offensive because it suggests that the being gay was an error, and shouldn't have happened if the family was 'normal'. It's offensive to suggest that being gay happened because something was wrong with your upbringing. As a gay person, I would be massively offended if anybody ever suggested I was gay because of anything that had or hadn't happened to me as a child.

dogscatsandbabies · 04/03/2015 22:56

I'm gay myself and actually have no problem with someone suggesting that environmental factors contributed to that. It doesn't change who I am or make it less valid. And perhaps I should clarify that I use the term 'gay' to make it easier for others to understand; I'm in a relationship with a woman, generally find myself attracted to women and have never met a man that I desired to be in to be in a relationship with. However some of them have some pretty redeeming features and I enjoy a bit of window shopping!

I too conform to the idea of sexuality as a continuum and whilst each of us are born at some point on it- as a result of genetic or hormonal factors, we are capable of shifting. Not from one end to the other but certainly a bit. Sometimes it is meeting one person that you connect with in an unexpected way, but equally it could be due to your experiences and learning as a child.

People need to get over this idea that to 'turn' from straight to gay would require a 180 degree shift. We're not THAT different. YANBU OP, it could have influenced some of your family but it would certainly not be the only factor.

Shockers · 04/03/2015 22:58

I think people just love, and sometimes gender is irrelevant.

A dysfunctional family could alter a person's idea of what love represents.

I have two good examples of this (in different relationships), who are friends of mine.

RandomNPC · 04/03/2015 23:07

Complete bollocks, OP. Is it a full
moon or something tonight?

Butterflywings168 · 04/03/2015 23:14

YANBU. Agree with dogscatsandbabies. It seems to be heresy to question 'born that way' but ...We should all be allowed to question things.
Jeanette Winterson has said she doubts she'd be gay if she had remained with her birth family ie it was her dysfunctional adoptive family that caused it.
If something is caused by family that doesn't mean it's a choice - see Stately Homes thread on how actually unpicking patterns of behaviour from dysfunctional families is, far from just choosing not to, bloody hard work!
I am bisexual/ bi-romantic, had issues trusting men due to toxic not-D M telling me all men are bastards etc...wasn't until quite recently I realised that while his behaviour towards her wasn't acceptable, she was equally abusive to him and is a narc...Angry BUT I have 2 Dsis who are straight. Meh, people are complex.

WineListPlease · 04/03/2015 23:15

There is evidence that the more older brothers that a man has, the more likely he is to be gay. The theory being that something happens during pregnancy that increases the likelihood of the child being gay. I don't know if there is any equivalent for women.

MerryInthechelseahotel · 04/03/2015 23:25

I don't think it's necessarily a genetic thing though. I think I read something quite convincing about a woman's body producing female hormones in response to the presence in her body of a male foetus, which is why the last of several boys is statistically more likely to be gay.

Eh? How do you know when you are the last of several foetus?

caryam · 04/03/2015 23:30

I agree that there is no such thing as a gay gene, and that it is environmental influences that determines every individuals sexuality. However I think those influences are more complex than you suggest.

countessmarkyabitch · 04/03/2015 23:46

There is quite a lot of research to support the existence of a gay gene, but the data seems to suggest that its a combination of genetic, hormonal and social factors.
Point is, your opinion doesn't really come in to it, since you're just randomly guessing based on no evidence at all.

None of these opinions matter. It's not something that opinion comes into.

BTW...>>>Eh? How do you know when you are the last of several foetus?

ReallyTired · 04/03/2015 23:59

There are gay animals. Surely that can't be down to monkey lion patenting.

www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals

Homosexuality is part of natural variation. Get over it!

MerryInthechelseahotel · 05/03/2015 00:02

how do you know when you are the last of several foetus yes but the way op argued the 'gayness' was brought about by the woman's body producing female hormones in response to the presence of a male foetus.

countessmarkyabitch · 05/03/2015 00:06

That is one well known theory, yes. For instance, Blanchard and Klassen (1997) reported that each additional older brother increases the odds of a man being gay by 33%. It's a well regarded study if a little out of date.

messyisthenewtidy · 05/03/2015 00:16

I don't think the actual question was insulting but just the way it was phrased. As a single mum I get tired of having my home described as dysfunctional or broken.

But in response to your question it's hard to tell as your family members share the same environment AND gene pool. What you should do is look at the number of children adopted by same sex parents and compare their rates of homosexuality to the general public.

But even then you have the issue of gay parents being more accepting of their children's homosexuality.

So who knows!!

EmptySoulKindHeart · 05/03/2015 02:10

i dunno why people get so upset over threads or questions like these. There really is no scientific proof so people can question
In my opinion i think people are born gay, others may think that way due to abuse, its possible but most are just naturally gay.

GallicIsCharlie · 05/03/2015 02:36

Good grief, there are some odd assumptions on this thread.

If you believe people are born gay, then you do believe it's genetic. That's a definition.

By the same token, it is not offensive to say a characteristic is caused by "a XX gene". Every single characteristic you were born with is caused by a gene (or several, in fact, as PP remarked.)

OP - I come from a dysfunctional family and we're all hetero. I don't know "how hetero" each of my sibs may be, if you accept that sexuality's a sliding scale.

I have always known it would be nicer for me to be lesbian: my parents gave me a poor impression of male/female relationships; I chose abusive men; I'm generally closer to women. But my body responds to male bodies in ways that it doesn't to female bodies, so there it is. I'm straight.

Whatever "causes the gay", it's nothing as straightforward as you suggest. Also bear in mind that most species display homosexual behaviour at times. That can't be caused by broken marriages!

GallicIsCharlie · 05/03/2015 02:38

What you should do is look at the number of children adopted by same sex parents and compare their rates of homosexuality to the general public.

This has been done quite thoroughly, I believe. No bias emerged.

Buttyfly · 05/03/2015 07:10

MerryInthechelseahotel because of the presence of older brothers.