To say loud and proud that it's better for my kids that I don't work

[yetanotherchangename]

There have been lots of threads about WOHM/SAHM at the moment, which frankly are beyond boring. HOWEVER on all of them I've seen SAHMs attacked (either for being naive, vacuous, lazy, money grabbing, downtrodden) etc., and I've seen a lot of SAHM explain why being at home is the only option for their family.

I've rarely if ever seen a SAHM openly say that it is a good thing for kids if they have a parent who doesn't work. I think we are too afraid of offending mothers who do work. Am I unreasonable to claim back some pride in what I am doing?

You're very lucky to have the choice OP.

Now go bake some cakes or something

OP are your working mum friends 'openly proud' of their choices? Do they say loud and proud, 'oh I'm brilliant, I work and I have children, this is the best thing for my children, validate me validate me!

If not, then I don't see what the perceived inequalities are in terms of validation and being proud and so on and so forth.

Fenella - I suppose rather than being "proud", I actually mean the opposite of apologetic. It's such a sensitive subject. Without wanting to make this ATAT (which is sort of is anyway), it scares me that protection for women in divorce will be eroded and some women will dance on the embers because SAHM aren't good feminists (in their view). I want to be able to celebrate what I have done with my children because I have more time for them, in the same way that I might discuss my 'wins' in the workplace with my friends.

I want to be able to be as proud of one child for aspiring to be a SAHP as I am of another for aspiring to be a palaeontologist.

Of course it's protected in divorce, for both men and women who stay at home.
If you lose financially you are protected.

Just not sure anyone should "aspire" to be a SAHP.
What if that person can't have children?

It's a shame this could not have become a SAHP support thread instead of turning into a bitch fest. Though so suppose AIBU isn't the best place for one of those.

I have done both. I spent years as an SAHM due to childcare costs, lack of any nearby family support and the problems getting work which fitted around school hours and holidays.

I now work part time every weekday morning, and quite often from home too. It suits me.

Everything has its pluses and minuses. You do the best you can with the hand you are dealt at the time.

" I want to be able to celebrate what I have done with my children because I have more time for them, in the same way that I might discuss my 'wins' in the workplace with my friends."

I don't blame you op. I am pleased with what I do with kids and the way I have brought them up. But I don't need anyone to tell me I am allowed to be pleased - I just am (well apart from the bits that went tits up of course! )

Onefoot I have heard lots of working mums saying that kind of thing over the years and I suspect a lot of them do it because they need validation that they've made the right choice.

I would find it difficult to argue with them why they need to study to do well at exams in school/university later if I wasn't using my own education

Sorry just wanted to pick up on this comment ^. After numerous studies bla bla about what benefits child education wise, it all comes down to Mothers education, so I find it odd when you say your not using this when at home with your children?

Your not only using it, your conferring this amazing education on them to give them best start in life, its hardly wasted? This will benefit them more than anything else you could buy.

As for the op, yes op, I do agree with you, you will never hear, at any sort of groups a woman say " I want to be with my children I feel its where I should be!"

You will instead hear fumbling excuses for fear of offending.

But many women also say they have to work when infact they want to go back to work and escape, I wish both sides could be more honest about it. Thats what real choice is.

"I prefer to be with my children, I couldnt imagine handing them over all day every day at such a young age"

" I am not cut out to be with small children in the day, its lonely and I feel un happy and not my best, for us its better all round, to put them in child care, me to work, and be a better mother when I see them"

Choice.

Oh crikey I don't care what others do. I'm a sahm and yes I'm fed up of being asked when I'm going to get a job as youngest dc (of 4) is now 8. That does really piss me off.

Dh is a musician and his work is crazy. Nothing, apart from some teaching, is regular. Things come in at the last minute. I would need a very flexible job to fit round his work. I am happy with what I do. Dh is happy. The dc are happy. Just don't make me feel like I should be getting a job and that my education was a waste of time. I have a degree and postgrad qualification, but never do I think it was pointless. I also have no idea how I'd get a job after 15 years of not working!

Each to their own.

Jackshit - "Now go bake some cakes or something." Do you know, I might just do that. Because I'm good at making cakes and I like doing it. And the cakes I've baked have raised around £150 for my kids' schools and a charity in the last couple of months.

Yanbu.

It's amazing how it's so easily twisted. I work 15-20 hours a week but am at home with the kids every day except one, when they're with grandparents. I've no doubt sometimes they're bored and would rather do activities, but where I live, in our circumstances and with our history and financial situation, it is a million times better for them that they are not in paid childcare (not in UK).

I am incredibly grateful I can do this and though I think pride isn't a word I would use, I do place a lot of personal value on it and feel privileged that it's ended up being a possibility. I wish everyone could feel the same about their lives, whatever their choices. Ultimately what matters in life is what helps you find meaning and purpose, develop your relationships and experience joy and vitality. I wish every woman could find this, not that every woman should [insert any prescriptive statement on being a mother here].

Solidarity, sisters!! We're only here for a short time. Do what matters to YOU within the context of the available options in your life,

Beyondrepair - this, exactly this.

Don't we all do what we think is the best for both us and our families as opportunities arise in our own unique and often changing circumstances?

It is a bit silly really to have another SAHM/WOHM bunfight thread. Hasn't it all been said a million times already?

been here too long

Must get a life/job delete as applicable

Say it loud and proud Yetanothernamechange but only if you are not receiving any state handouts to facilitate you to stay at home (Child benefit is an exemption)

Its a hard one. My mum worked so much so that I don't have many early memories of her. I loved it when she was on holiday and could pick me up from school. It would have been nice to have her around more.

On the other hand, I had a fantastic childhood. My parents never argued about money and I was taught the importance of hard work.

A mum in my PN group doesn't see her baby (awake) from Monday to Thursday due to work.

That is sad, but it's just as sad that some men are in the same situation.

Having said that let me restart the bunfight with one last comment. I hate that concept that mothers working is a good thing because they are an example to their children. It feels to me like the "pink stinks" campaign, the idea behind being that all we need to do is to educate our daughters to be ambitious and not too stereotypically girly and that will overthrow the patriarchy and they will have great careers and all the freedom. I'm as ungirly as they come and ambitious enough to have earned a PhD and 10 years as a scientist, then a new career as a statistician when my original area went pear-shaped. Still though now I have small kids and the only work we can get (and that will pay the nursery) is the kind of stuff where they expect you to be able to stay late and finish stuff and be on, basically, responsible, all the time. If you don't finish it you take it home sort of stuff. And it's just not compatible with the needs of small kids. Our workplaces expect us to behave as though we have no children, so it is starting to look as though our only option is for one of us to keep going in and pretending to be single while the other gives up work. I, the woman, having had to make safe career choices and take my eye off the ball for the time it took to get through fertility treatment, pregnancy and maternity leave, earn the least, so it's me who gives up. It's not a failure of feminist nerve, it's the facts that are in front of us, and I think the lesson it's going to teach my girls is a true one if not very cheery. As things stand it's not always possible to have everything, sometimes you have to choose, and it doesn't mean you're unambitious or you think it's the best thing ever to spend your days darning your husband's socks or whatever. I think on balance I'd rather teach them that than teach them that above all else they need to throw their family life under a train if necessary to keep their careers on track (although if they want to, they can, and I'll even help with the childcare should it come to that). They have a choice, we have choices, but our choices come out of a range of choices that are mostly shite, and us as individuals being really ambitious or focused or hardworking or lucky or brainy doesn't make up for the fact that collectively we get a rubbish deal.

But OP why not just be proud of things you do, without having to link it to the fact that you're SAHM?

That's terrific you've raised so much money and you should be proud. Well done!

But the thing is, a working mum could have done the same perhaps, especially if only working PT. So it's something that anyone should be proud of (dads too! my DH bakes all the time) It doesn't really have anything to do with being SAHM.

Personally I think it is better for my young ds that I am with him more than I am not. I like being his main carer. But I do a lot with him activities wise and have the money to do so. I work two days and like that I get a change and feel it makes me a better parent when I am with him. I also appreciate he benefits from time with a childminder and all their activities as well as learning from the older children she looks after.
So being a stay at home mum has it's benefits but if you are significantly financially worse off because of it and can't afford to do lots of activities/ socialising with your child I don't think it is worth the sacrifice.

Apologies if this has already been addressed, I have only skimmed the thread...

Do you mean that it is better for you as the mother to stay at home, or that it is better for one parent to stay at home with the children rather than they be in childcare? So it could equally be a father who is the SAHP?

Also, how much do you need to work for it to be a detriment? Is one day a week at work harming your children? What about 2 or 3? Or is it the majority of your days a week e.g. 4 or more? What about if you are a teacher (or another job with the possiblity of long breaks) and have longer holidays where you can spend every day with your children? Does this counteract the times when you are working 4 or 5 days a week?

What would be nice IMO would be if parents could just assume that other parents have made the best choice for their families in their current situation.

Picking up on a comment made by duplo - " I wish everyone could feel the same about their lives", ie. that they are living their values.

Yes, this is what I want - that people can have the chance to lead lives with or less the right mix of personal/family/work satisfaction. The exact mix will vary from person to person and at different times within the a person's life.

I also want our criticisms not to be focused at each other, but at aspects of the system that make it impossible to find that mix. Some things can't be fixed (you might long for a parter and/or dcs and not be able to have them) but some things can, even if it's over the long term (challenging work cultures that make it unnecessarily hard to have a family life).

I'm firmly of the view that mothers who work instead of being financially dependent on a man set a good example to their children.

So, you are firmly of the view that SAHMs set a bad example to their children...?

There is no "winner" here. Families and situations are different and sometimes it is better if both parents woh and sometimes better if only one does so. This can vary over time in a single family.

My husband and I have both worked full time since our son was born- he's nearly 14, using a combination of nannies, au pairs and boarding school as childcare. This has had benefits:

• Both parents are financially independent and have remained employable. If one became very ill or similar the other would still be able to support the family
• I would have been a terrible parent of a small child:much as I adore my son all that wheels on the bus crap would have finished me off

-My son understands that women as well as men have jobs and use their brains and that men as well as women have domestic responsibilities -We have been able to afford to live where we want to live, pay school fees, have extras

However:

• for each of us life would be much less stressful if someone else were at home taking responsibility for all the domestic stuff and the household would have been a happier place as a result (which, incidentally is why I don't think it in any way sexist for a sahp's role to include making life less stressful for the wohp)
• I think one nanny was a mistake and my son would have been happier with me: I feel very guilty about this one
• It is really difficult to stay on top of all the educational stuff
• We don't see nearly as much of him as we would like to.

In fact (and I would never have predicted this) I think he needs me at home far more as a teenager than as a toddler and (having now saved up the school fees) We're both giving up work next year to be there through the GCSE and A level years. This also means that We'll have a few years to enjoy his company at a stage when he is interesting to talk to.

Everybody works these things out for themselves and there are a million different ways of getting it right and a million different ways of getting it wrong

Jeez, everyone's different. Do whatever suits you and your family. It really isn't anyone else's business.