To say loud and proud that it's better for my kids that I don't work

[yetanotherchangename]

There have been lots of threads about WOHM/SAHM at the moment, which frankly are beyond boring. HOWEVER on all of them I've seen SAHMs attacked (either for being naive, vacuous, lazy, money grabbing, downtrodden) etc., and I've seen a lot of SAHM explain why being at home is the only option for their family.

I've rarely if ever seen a SAHM openly say that it is a good thing for kids if they have a parent who doesn't work. I think we are too afraid of offending mothers who do work. Am I unreasonable to claim back some pride in what I am doing?

I think if you have read the thread you will see that I am not judgemental of WOHM. I'm saying that having a parent who stays at home is a good and valid choice.

I worry about the drive towards a vision of equality where partners share in all tasks is misguided. Within a marriage there is likely to be some disparity in the partners' aptitude and inclination for various things and laws around divorce should take this into account.

I also worry about the drive to see both partners in work without a discussion of the impact that can, in some circumstances, have on families.

I worry that childcare is often (not always) substandard - I certainly experienced this when I returned to work when my first two were small.

I think that we are so concerned about supporting women's right to work, or being conscious of their need to work, that we further undermine the role of the SAHP by being afraid to talk about the benefits of having a partner at home.

I feel that that we dont acknowledge the stay at home dad and instead society views that as wrong that he isnt capable or that he is weak and lazy.

As SAHP we're not unionised. I can't think of any real spokespeople or role models in the public eye. I can't think of anyone shouting our side of the story. It seems like the judiciary and politicians don't support our role. Perhaps we should be speaking up a bit more about the value of what we do.

Also as we all hear like to judge both wohm and sahm why do we judge working dads? Why cant a mn instill work ethic that some of ypu worry about. Why cant he provide the nurture at home while his wife works? We do we only judge mums and never dads? We only judge dads who stay at home and it is usually derogatory.

I just think : whatever.

Both options are good for children. Most childcare is good quality. Being at home with parent us good - if parent doesn't spend all day on Mumsnet.

Pineappleshortbread - I think you have a very good point.

Anyway wiring is better than defaulting on your mortgage . That's definitely not good for children .

Wiring? Working

And fir most people it isn't a choice.

Hmm I can kind of see where you are coming from op.

Myself and my oh do not agree with childcare before school age. Both of us were raised by Sahm, they were raised by Sahm so childcare is not a done thing in the family unless by family. So it is really important to both of us that our son always has one of us at home. We have worked around each other and at the moment I am a mostly Sahm while studying for my degree. Later this year I will hopefully secure a full time position and my oh will cut back his hours to be mainly a Sahp. I can imagine people will assume it's because we want to save childcare costs but nope we could afford childcare we just don't like it. So I guess we kind of take aspects of both. It's important that we completely support ourselves and our son sees as working but at the same time we make sure our son is our priority and he is not placed in childcare.

I really do think a lot of Sahp have to justify their position a lot and I know wohm have had to as well. We should be more supportive of all women whatever they choose.

Pineapple - I'm reminded of threads where I've heard the SAHD described as a cocklodger. I hear that and I think - what does that make me (maybe a prostitute as I've seen SAHMs referred to on other threads)?

Its utter bullshit to claim the op isnt judgemental about this.
"It is a good thing for kids if they have a parent who doesnt work"
That is a judgement.
Good for you that you ca afford it. For many/ most people its not a choice.

Why? Why do people keep having this fight? I couldn't care less whether other people choose to go to work, stay at home, whatever... as long as their children are taken care of it's nobody else's business.

And I absolutely don't agree with the claim that you can't instil a work ethic in your children if you don't go to work yourself - my mum was able to be a SAHM because my dad worked his arse off, and my dad was able to work his arse off because my mum was a SAHM, I could see that even as a child.

I'm not "proud" of being a WAHM as some sort of label/identity, however I'm proud that I am good at my job, and look after my children (hopefully) pretty well. Just the same, if I was a SAHM I would be proud IF I was doing a good job of it, not just because I'd chosen to do it. If that makes sense.

"It is a good thing for kids if they have a parent who doesnt work". That is a judgement.

You're absolutely right, Amanda. There's no way to read that sort of sweeping statement as anything but a clear judgment.

I'm interested in the OP's notion that a move toward equality in all tasks is "misguided." Really?

And childcare is "often substandard"? Really?

I mean, it's one thing to say, "It's good for my kids to have a parent at home." But to say that is different from saying that it is good for kids, presumably meaning for all children.

I've seen plenty of SAHMs saying on MN threads that it's best for DC to have a parent at home. And in case they need more support, most editions of the Daily Mail have some article supporting that position.

I don't think your position is exactly new or unsung OP.

It's much rarer to see anyone saying that it is better for DCs to have two working parents (except Xenia in her various guises, who says it a lot, admittedly not in a very tactful way).

Obviously the only true answer is that it's better for SOME families to have one non working parent and it's better for OTHER families to have two working parents. It all depends on the circumstances. But that is a bit too dull isn't it .

I started reading this and then it occurred to me that I really couldn't careless.

I'm loud and proud that I have recently learnt to crochet, I don't expect anyone else to give a fuck.

FromSeaToShining - what I mean by "equality in all tasks" is this notion that the 'house' jobs and the 'breadwinning' should be split equally down the middle in an ideal world. I don't see why if one partner has more inclination and aptitude in one direction and the other does in another direction. I could never hope to earn a fraction of what my DH does, so it makes sense that I take on more of the 'house' stuff. I happen also to like spending time with my kids and they seem to like having me around so that works really well for us. What doesn't work is if I'm automatically assumed to be inferior because of this, or can't take pride in my role.

In terms of childcare often being substandard this is just one report. My own experience is of putting my children into a daycare environment that was the best available in the area, but finding it really lacking and it being a destructive experience for our family and others.

This debate only seems to appear on here.

I have never seen it in RL at all. I have friends that work full time, part time, out of home and in home as well as sahp and all seem supportive of each other. We all have to do what is right for our own family and should simply be supporting each other as necessary. I am a sahm as it suited us while dh built up his business. Yes, it was tough at times and at times felt really I now work with him but around dc and it suits us and works.

There is no right or wrong so no bashing needed as we all need to do what works and pays the bills, which is really the point of it all. Can you live the way you choose and pay your own bills....

I've been both a SAHM and a WOHM depending on what was right for me and my family at that point. I could be a SAHM because we could afford it (we got child benefit but nothing else). When I realised that I was becoming economically dependent on my dh to the point where I was uncomfortable then I went back into the workplace p/t and eventually f/t and he started taking more SAHP responsibilities. I think we all have to do what is right for our particular family, including being a SAHM so long as we can afford to do it.

The caveat to that is I think women in particular need to maintain their ability to earn a living, we never know what's round the corner in terms of health of spouse, relationship breakdown etc. The vast majority of us who are now divorced never thought it would happen to us .....being a SAHM for too long (and not using the time to upskill or retrain) is a dangerous strategy long term.

Minipie - god forbid that I ever look to the DM to provide me with a voice.

It may be good for your children if you don't work but that doesn't mean it is better full stop. It certainly wouldn't be better for my children if I didn't work. They are at school and the fact that I work doesn't really effect them apart from the fact that we have more money. I also think the fact I work sets a good example.

yetanother you and I are cuntlodgers apparently if you read the thread about the guy who doesn't work and expect op to fund his gambling habit.
That kind of response is as horrible as someone say a wohm shouldn't have kids if they are farmed out to strangers.
Personslly sahm and wohm should have equal value. I feel no need to brag about what a great start I give my dc by for the most part sahm. A child of a wohm is also getting a great start too.
whatever works for your family.

So I don't think SAHMs should be proud of what they do. It is a choice that they have often been given, and often an easy option too, disguised as self-sacrifice to benefit the children.

But you can easily flip that though that women work - some as they need the money

I have friends who are single parents who need to work, and friends who do need to work.

I also have friends who have had dc late, have had fabulous career and salaries until late 30's and dh's on top level jobs, lovely homes, small mortgages, if at all, plenty of savings, nice cars, holidays, lovely standards of living and yet the mum says " I need to work we need the money" .

Most sahms I know are scrimping and saving and doing everything on the cheap.

So I wouldn't be proud of myself for saying we need hte money when actually we dont but I use it as an excuse to get away from looking after my own children.

Sorry yetanother not sure if you sahm or not.

adventuretime11 - yes, I'm a sahm now (have been wohm hence reference to childcare experience above).