To think the Uk Standards of beauty are suited to White people

[QueenofSouthLondon]

I have noticed as a black women that hardly any celebrities that are considered beautiful are black. In fact I can't think of one black (excluding mixed) or Asian British celebrity that is considered as beautiful by the whole nation.

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered attractive outside my race.

So aibu to think this.

chandler You may find it offensive but in beauty and fashion dark skinned women with stereotypical African features are very unusual and are remarked upon when present like lupita or Alex wek

Having lighter skin or a narrower nose doesn't negate the women highlighted being black it's just a statement of fact. Why is it offensive? Why is highlighting the absence of dark skinned women divisive or offensive to you?

Asiana, Asian woman and Asian bride. 3 magazines for Indian women. All 3 have been slated for not actually having Indian models.

I have no interest in getting married so that's Asian bride out. I haven't seen asiana on sale here and Asian woman is a quarterly.

So those are the magazines targeted to me as an Asian woman. There used to be stardust and cineblitz but those are now defunct and if they were available I'm not interested in Bollywood.

Isn't Beyoncé naturally quite dark? She has got lighter as the years go by. This does seem really strange as she is one of the most powerful women in pop/R n B. Why does she go along with this light skin thing? Why not use her influence to be 'black and proud'? Its a shame.

whodrank was it you who started making all the racist comments against white people on the other thread, or one of the cohort who later joined in?

I'm saying the same as then now - I'm not getting drawn into making these racist, obsessive, judgements on people's appearances. Mel B, Rhianna, Kim Kardashian (I wonder where that surname originated from), Beyoncé - sorry guys, apparently you're not black enough to count as black any more. Your nose and lips or something look too European. And bad, bad Beyoncé, you dye your hair. I'm being sarcastic. If you can't see how offensive that is, then maybe you need to find a sense of perspective somewhere.

It sounds like you or another poster possibly have a bit of an irrational dislike of blonde Europeans - in most magazines, the women do seem to be mainly brunette, even when they are European. But I guess the blondes must stand out, and be easier to pick on?

The comments can be pretty crappy too.

www.themarysue.com/zendaya-dreadlocks-oscars/ 'probably smells like patchouli oil or weed' of an 18-year-old girl.

www.thewire.com/entertainment/2013/02/onion-quevenzhane-wallis-joke/62476/ 'kind of a cunt, right?' about a 9-year-old.

Does anyone remember what it was like in the 90s? There was Moesha and Raven and Sister Sister and you could actually watch TV and see black girls and women represented in a positive way pretty regularly.

It doesn't really matter whether women on this thread think xyz women are more attractive than others.

The fact is that all over the world women are using skin lightening products and having plastic surgery to get more white features and are generally more valued the closer they are to appearing white and the UK media also buys into that "ideal"

'racist comments against white people'

oh ok I didn't realise it was one of those kinds of threads

I think a whole set of different issues have been mashed together by the OP. I don't agree that black women in the UK are being discriminated against in dating or are found unattractive. Those studies are based on the US which is completely different.

That's different to racial representation in magazines or news.

I wish feminists and anti-racist campaigners were able to get their point across without having to insult people or catastrophize. It's possible to illuminate prejudice without (falsely) stating that black british women are all considered unattractive.

That is really offensive I have written nothing racist on this or any other thread. Disagree and debate with me but to try and slander me is petty and bullying.

I have nothing against anyone. I have simply said you can be black and have lighter skin and darker skin. These are all facts. Generally lighter skinned black women are the beauty standard. That is all I have said.

And I am out.

This was and is an interesting topic but apparently there is no discussion allowed.

loveyourchaos.tumblr.com/post/51215542733

Reverse racism isn't a thing because black supremacy isn't a thing. hth

So you're basically discounting black women for not conforming to stereotypical ideas about the appearance of black women? And for being of mixed race?

Enormouse 3 magazines for Indian women. All 3 have been slated for not actually having Indian models.

So you want magazines for everyone to have models of all races, but magazines for Indian women (despite them being under-represented in modelling for cultural reasons) to have solely Indian models?

I'm with the chandler on this. Why do people feel this constant need to tally up how many black people there are in the media? Whenever this argument is made the fact that there actually are dark-skinned black women in the media is ignored. I find it more annoying that you have to be photogenic to do anything now; even fucking tv chefs have to be gorgeous if they are female. Lorraine Pascal is dark-skinned and gorgeous. Science and animal documentary presenter? Yep ya gotta be fit or else you can't have the job.

As for racism against white people I ought to tell my poor white dp to move out since I am creating such a toxic atmosphere. I can't hang out with my family of black, white and mixed people.

Whereas male presenters are allowed to be a bit ugly.

Also there are almost as many mixed race black people in the UK as non mixed race black people (I'm a non mixed race black person btw) so arguing that mixed race people are being overrepresented is ridiculous.

This isn't America - at least be bothered to make up your own talking points.

I cannot actually believe some of the answers on this thread.

Of course you are not being unreasonable OP!

Magazines don't put black women on their covers unless they are very light skinned, mixed race, 'acceptable' black women otherwise their sales drop and advertisers fall off. FACT.

Beyonce still being touted as an example, a PP saying 'oh she doesn't count as a black person now eh?'.

Uh no - she is the one of the whitest looking black women I've ever seen - blonde hair, straight hair, nose job (yes that does matter because it's about conforming to what she knew she had to do if she wanted to be the 'black' Madonna/Whitney i.e. mainstream black star), light skin.

The listed women on this thread are either:

Mixed race
Very light skinned an conformist to European beauty ideals
OR NOT HELD UP AS PARAGONS OF BEAUTY - JUST BLACK WOMEN IN THE PUBLIC EYE!

Fine if you don't care, fine if you think it's OTT or irrelevant or that it's just market forces - but to deny this is true is pernicious or delusion.

Reverse racism isn't a thing because black supremacy isn't a thing. hth

I think that's utter bollocks actually.

There is no such thing as reverse racism, only racism. You don't need to be born white to be a racist.

I understand your frustrations I used to feel like this now older and a bit wiser it doesn't bother me, I'm confident in the person I am, I know I'm beautiful I don't need a magazine to tell me I need pale skin, blonde hair and blue eyes, and an anorexic body, to be deemed pretty. Btw I got nothing against blonde women they're beuatiful plz don't attack me lol

we are in the UK with majority white skinned people, so they will tout European features as the "ideal" beauty. in Africa I would expect largely black models on the pages with white, and Asian models being a minority to reflect not just the country but market. This is about money after all. IF a UK fashion mag is full of black and asian models will it appeal to the masses,when most of the population is white?

the fashion and beauty industry is largely controlled by white people. Even if there are bases in international countries the centre of the fashion and beauty industry is in the west, I.e london, Paris, Milan. So even their international versions of for example vogue will still look for models with European features even if they are of "colour ".

it would be good if we quit whining and could find the means to get black. Asian and other ethnic minorities to come together to make a magazine that could appeal to all races. There are enough pages in there to represent the diversity in the UK. Why can't we have white models on some pages, black on others, Asians, latino etc? I To me that is more representative of the Britain I know. Now if I lived in the Shetlands or similar then I wouldn't bemoan this lack of diversity, but living in cities in the UK is far different. I think it could take off, but will couture designers be willing to feature in such a magazine, that is a big issue, I'm cynical, but there are many other designers out there who will.

In the UK there is an Asian woman magazine, but it's full of women from the indopak regions, often even anglicised versions, chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese etc women do not feature. I find it boring having a magazine just with Indian models in it, i am Asian btw before I am accused of racism. Also it only seems to issue every season not every month, which makes me think it has a small readership! I could be wrong.

The fashion tends to focus on Asian designers largely not western clothing, so again that's a downer for me. Asian and black people growing up in the west like to wear a mix of clothing from their ethnic background and western clothing on the high street, so this needs to be reflected in the mag. People with the money and ambition big bucks are waiting to be tapped into, there is a market here ;).

Btw the good thing about the Asian mag you don't need to be an anorexic to feature, this look is not desirable to the Asian market. I haven't seen it in the Asian woman mag, but I've not had a copy for maybe 3-4 years now, maybe things have changed?

It's possible to illuminate prejudice without (falsely) stating that black british women are all considered unattractive.

This is what I was trying to get at earlier really. In 'real life' black women are considered to be as attractive as anyone else ime, which is to say some are some aren't and it's all in the eye of the beholder. So why don't black (and other woc) feature more in magazine shots? I don't believe that it's because sales would fall - beauty is beauty and women who buy fashion mags are going to buy them regardless because they want look at beautiful images of aspirational but unachievable stuff.

I can't believe you think its acceptable to argue about who is black enough and who isn't? All this: she looks too white to be proper black stuff is offensive and makes you just as bad.

I agree countess

yabu.

I cant think of many ugly black women in the public eye, out of the ones I know I would say I think x number are beautiful, roughly the same percentage as the white women in find beautiful. yes this is a lot less women that I think meet the black beautiful criteria but not a lower percentage and the reason is only that there is less black women celebrities. you yourself gave the figure as 2% of the population are black.

of course there's not going to be equal numbers of beautiful women on tv.

the real issue here is that black women (and many other groups - disabled, mixed race, short, glasses wearers, etc) are under represented in public life. thats what we should do something about. then the numbers will be high enough to have a decent number of beautiful black women but I imagine (unless you believe one race is more beautiful than another) there will always be far more beautiful white women, about 50times more by your math.

Well let's face it, apart from in politics there are very few ugly women in the public eye at all, of any colour.

Unless they are a comedian. It's okay to be plain if you are a comedian but otherwise, no.