To think the Uk Standards of beauty are suited to White people

[QueenofSouthLondon]

I have noticed as a black women that hardly any celebrities that are considered beautiful are black. In fact I can't think of one black (excluding mixed) or Asian British celebrity that is considered as beautiful by the whole nation.

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered attractive outside my race.

So aibu to think this.

another one who agrees with countess

Enormouse I haven't seen a hard copy of Asiana or Asian Brides for a few years now, but when I did use to regularly come across them, the models and stories were almost all exclusively Indian & Pakistani. Just had a look at their website Asiana and they're all still Asian.

However, almost exclusively they're all light skinned. So yes the Asians too are discriminating and promoting beauty ideals based on Western appearance.

I read this just now OP and don't have time to read the rest of the posts, as I have to go to work, but can guess there would be a hotbed of arguments.

In my opinion, and I could be wrong, there are some 400-500 years of institutional racism in this and other western countries. It is slowly dying, but so slowly that it is hard to bear and accept for black people and some white. You are right, but it I don't know what we can do about it to make things change as quickly as they should.

Don't forget one thing though, beauty is not about "features" but also about what is in the soul.

Oh give over House! What on earth is 'typically black' anyway? If you look at women from north or East Africa, southern Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya etc., they do tend to have slimmer noses and less full lips than women from west African countries like Nigeria for example, but it doesn't make them any less black or any less African!

Bloody hell, it's like saying I can't consider myself truly white because I don't have blue eyes or blonde hair.

anya79 Now if I lived in the Shetlands or similar then I wouldn't bemoan this lack of diversity, but living in cities in the UK is far different.

Ironically, the Shetland Islands and Orkney actually feature the "most Asian" white people in the UK - the DNA markers associated with Asian ancestry are more numerous, thought to be as a result of north Asian admixture with the Scandinavian races, and the Sami (or possibly some Inuit admixture directly).

But why bother to find out these things about your own country? After all, all whites must be the same surely?

And yes, Countess the other thread (which I am not going to link as some of the comments were so vile) was basically an excuse for this bullying attitude. Two such threads in two weeks now.

I'm with you thatsucks

Waves to Enormouse - from Northern Ireland. Actually since I moved to NI I have seen more out and out racism than anywhere else. People here feel no shame about it. Its staggering.

There is huge pressure for black women in the public eye to appear more western. Nose jobs to narrow down their bridge. Nearly all wear a weave or lace front wigs Beyonce, Rhianna, Tyra, Niaomi, Opra And not their natural hair.
And most mainstream "black" beautiful women are light skinned. And when they do land major campaigns their skin is lightened further. Beyonce and L'oreal campaigns spring to mind. Kelly Rowlands from Destinys Child had her nose westernised later in her career, as did Halle Berry.

Actually I think if you look up and mixed of black person in the public eye 80% have had surgery to westernise their noses. I'm mixed and have considered this myself.

I do think that mixed is becoming the ideal of beauty in the industry at their nod at diversity but only when the person turns out with golden skin, curly blonde or honey hair light eyes and causation nose and full lips. I think Jasmine Sanders is the perfect example of what people find attractive.

Also Tyra, Naomi (possibly contacts), & Rhianna all have light hazel green eyes which aren't a typical feature when you think of a black woman who tend to have Brown or dark brown eyes. They are very western.

I must say I think all of the above ladies eyes are very striking against the contrast of their skin tone.

YABU, we have lots of gorgeous African descent women here in Sydney Australia from recent migration programs and they are widely acknowledged amongst other communities as being extremely beautiful. Tall, willowy, graceful, fine featured in terms of cheekbones and bone structure. They have no trouble getting magazine work either if they do go into modelling. I do think there are some universally understood perceptions of beauty.

I think some people are missing the point.
Firstly correct me if I'm wrong but the OP was talking about Britain and not American celebrities. America is very different to here.
Secondly the point was not what you individually think is beautiful but that society reveres as beautiful. There are certain women who are lorded for their appearance in British society the most notable examples being Kate Middleton and Cheryl Cole. I cannot think of a black or asian woman who is treated in the same way.
Not that being revered for appearance is a good thing but it is indicative of something I think is a wider problem concerning race.
Speaking to white people a large quantity will say they are not attracted to those of another race. This is racist pov because it assumes black and asian people are just one homogenous group. How can you know you don't find someone you have never met attractive simply based on their race? Unless you stereotype.
Op yanbu.

itsbetterthanabox Speaking to white people a large quantity will say they are not attracted to those of another race. This is racist pov because it assumes black and asian people are just one homogenous group. How can you know you don't find someone you have never met attractive simply based on their race? Unless you stereotype

Just like you have done, I suppose? I mean, I suppose you have actually questioned a "large quantity of white people" on their personal preferences? In the unlikely event you did, I would commend them on being polite enough to answer you! You didn't, of course, you've just made race-based stereotypical assumptions.

And why does everything have to revolve around who is attracted to whom? I don't lead my whole life based on who fancies me and who doesn't, and spend my time thinking up pointless reasons as to why that might be.

The UK is different from the US, you are right. There is a different proportion of racial mixture. Non-whites are in a minority in the UK. That seems to be reflected in much of the "proof" you discuss. How would you propose getting around this? Making magazines (magazines, FFS!) carry more than the proportion of black people in photographs? Twice as much? Three times?

Don't you think this would stir up racial hatred because of obsessional sensitivity on the part of a few, who cannot help but look at everything in terms of race and sexual attraction, and dissect the appearance of black people for not being black enough and having too "Western" coloured eyes?

Are there not some more important things than bloody magazine pictures? I of course get the important point here, but if you are going to try and have a serious discussion, can you possibly discuss slightly more varied things, such as access to the jobs market?

itsbetterthanboxNot in the uk (but known in the uk) Aishwarya Rai (former miss world) Is the only Aisan woman who Ithink has a similar fawning over mentality about her beauty, in a similar manner as Cheryl Cole.

She is very western looking. With light skin and light eyes (which i'm convinced are contacts). Which just goes to prove the point really.

Speaking to white people a large quantity will say they are not attracted to those of another race. This is racist pov

I think the question of individual attraction is completely different to that of the general consensus of any society and the former is not racism in the traditional sense.

Goldvelvet spot on i was thinking the same with the beyonce contorversy but didnt have time to post it!
Similar issues exist with indian examples of beauty.
Someone mentioned ashwariya rai as an example of indian beauty but although she is beautiful she looks nothing like her early days. Her skin was more tanned amd she had hazel eyes she was a natural beauty, so why change? Over the years shes become several shades lighter and the eyes are sometimes green sometimes blue. Point is i think shes been made to conform to western standards. She has also done campaigns for loreal like beyonce. Im not an avid watcher of bollywood movies but even i can spot the actress who appears milk white in one movie then brazilian tanned in another. Its sad really that little girls idolise these ppl and use bleach products that can cause cancer.
I blame these ethnic women to for agreeing to be photoshopped lighter..they already have careers as actresses and singers its not like they need the money the brand needs them more, i guess they have no ethics?

Perhaps since nearly every black and Asian woman is too light skinned to be considered, it might be easier if you gave some examples of women who are suitably racially conformist?

Its sad really that little girls idolise these ppl and use bleach products that can cause cancer.

As sad as skin cancer from tanning.

Thechandler.
I did say this isn't the biggest issue but it is the one being discussed. We can talk about this and things like job access... Why diminish this issue?
I have spoken to a lot of white people on this and I was surprised by the response. I wasn't claiming I've done a survey it's just an observation. I think it's an important one though. I wasn't stereotyping and I don't think it's useful to make this about 'racism' towards white people. Can there never be a conversation about race without people trying to do that?

And why does everything have to revolve around who is attracted to whom? I don't lead my whole life based on who fancies me and who doesn't, and spend my time thinking up pointless reasons as to why that might be.

To me it's more showcasing that certain facial characteristic/hair types related to your heritage are NOT attractive because they are not showcased as such in mainstream media. When I was younger I was desperate to have hair like Beyonce. (I'm mixed and have afro hair but ringlets as apposed to really tight curl pattern) I couldn't understand that even when I straightened my hair it still didn't fall like Beyonce's (I have thick hair but not heavy) and then a hairdresser told me it was because Beyonce's hair isn't her hair! It's a weave! Natural black hair is barely represented in mainstream media. If you see a famous black woman good chances are she's got a full head of someone else head on her hair (from a completely different culture) Naomi Campbell is pretty much bald from years of weaves pulling on her natural coily afro hair. She does not have silky long black hair, but wears it that way because it's what is deemed attractive.

My daughter is mixed but looks white for the most part but if she didn't I would love her to feel confident that her features were attractive. And not feel the need to wear a weave, relax her hair to look desirable of professional.

Thenchandler. People don't tan in order to look racially different. Comparison makes no sense.
Also I do think anyone who says they aren't attracted to entire race is racist. You can't say it as you haven't met everyone of that race so you can only say it if you are stereotyping that race as all being the same.

QueenofSouthLondon I think you are right. And I think it is sad, and will change with time.

I also think with more and more American films and programmes to some extent ideas of more varied beauty will come into the media more. It is really about the media and not about individual people IMHO.

In many ways the image of beauty that is held up in this country is pretty standard, and it only varies in as much as the 'type' of beauty varies. So fashion models generally are very thin and very young. But I think a 'sexy' image is almost always more voluptuous. I think images of what makes men appealing is way more wide and does include more ethnicities, heritages, body shapes and ages.

Just for the record there are amazingly beautiful people from all ethnicities, heritages, body shapes and ages - of course!

I disagree with the statement about it being racist to find certain racial characteristics sexually attractive to you, or not.

Attraction is what it is, it's not a choice someone makes. It's also not stereotyping to recognise that there are certain characteristics to racial groups, otherwise they would not be visibly recognised as such.

I've always been attracted to black men more than any other. I find very dark skin attractive, as well as some other features particular to black African men which I'd be hard pressed to consciously figure out, but I know which people I'm drawn to, and they're always from that racial group.

I'm white myself, so I happen to have an inter-racial preference, but I don't think it's racist to have a sexual preference for those of your own race either, or any race for that matter. I look forward to the day when it just doesn't matter any more.

The media, does not represent actual people of the UK's ideology or conceptions of beauty - the sad fact is, a portion of people like to be spoon fed and a lot of people fall into just going with what the media dictates. For example tanning, make up, hair, fashion, lifestyle, the 'perfect partner', how to raise your kids and where you holiday.
Look at the news for heavens sake, everything is tainted.
All ethnicities are wonderful and beautiful, its just a shame the British media seem to highlight blonde, buxom and 'tanned' as the staple, when not all of us conform to it, and never have.

Who is it that's actually saying that black women aren't attractive? I've known so many men who find black women incredibly attractive.

I have Indian and Pakistani friends and their wives, sisters and friends are also beautiful.

I do wonder with Indian folks whether there are other things affecting the desire to be lighter as darker skin is generally seen as less favourable (status thing).

itsbetter Thenchandler. People don't tan in order to look racially different. Comparison makes no sense.

But do black people do so? Are you seriously suggesting that anyone using skin whitening products is expecting to seriously change their racial appearance? It would take drastic plastic surgery, and even then would probably not work.

Also I do think anyone who says they aren't attracted to entire race is racist. You can't say it as you haven't met everyone of that race so you can only say it if you are stereotyping that race as all being the same.

What about white people getting bum implants?

How would you account for the popularity of, for want of a better phrase, Thai brides?

I think this is what it boils down to. Some people simply cannot accept that others, exercising their free will, will never be attracted to them. But is that sort of unthinking statement limited to white people? And so you really think disproportionately high representation of black people in the media would change it? As opposed to integration by socialisation over time?

goldvelvet If you see a famous black woman good chances are she's got a full head of someone else head on her hair (from a completely different culture)

You do realise that's the same for white celebrities? Most of them are wearing a little part of Russia, or India, or Brazil on their heads.