To think the Uk Standards of beauty are suited to White people

[QueenofSouthLondon]

I have noticed as a black women that hardly any celebrities that are considered beautiful are black. In fact I can't think of one black (excluding mixed) or Asian British celebrity that is considered as beautiful by the whole nation.

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered attractive outside my race.

So aibu to think this.

YANBU

Here are some pictures of beAtiful women from different parts of the world

www.buzzfeed.com/javiermoreno/this-photographer-traveled-the-world-to-show-that-female-bea

Oh for goodness sake how can that be racist? Have you all spent so long being earnest on this thread that you've lost your sense of humour?

I quite clearly aimed that comment at both black and white women equally and I merely meant that we'd probably all look a bit crap on the TV if we were pressured to leave our hair completely 'natural'. Good God, I'd look like Worzel Gummidge.

My point was that celebs and women on TV are expected to look groomed and reasonably attractive at all times. And for many black women right now, like it or not, current black hair trends dictate that that means weaves, relaxers and straighteners. Lots of self-respecting black women would be horrified at the thought of appearing in the public eye with their hair not 'done.'

What options are available to black women when their hair is left natural? Classic afro, either long or short, then there's cornrows and braids of various sorts, or there's spending hours trying to coax the hair into submission with a ton of setting lotion or whatever, so that it doesn't spring straight back up and out again. What difference does it really make to anyone if they want to modify their hair structure so that it's less labour intensive on a daily basis to get the look they like? Why is that such a travesty?

On this thread black women are being either criticised, patronised or pitied for not being dark skinned enough, and for the crime of wanting a bit of variety in their hairstyles. It's been implied that they are a bit tragic for trying to look 'more white' if they do anything at all to their hair. Their self worth is being questioned for wanting to style their hair in ways that they like, and they choose. Can you imagine if white women were all told to stay away from extensions, perms, Brazilian blowouts, highlights etc? 'You are a white woman, you were born to have mousy, slightly wavy but floppy hair, and you'll jolly well stick to it. It's racially authentic. Stop trying to be something you're not, with all these curls and these colours and just leave your hair the way that nature intended.'

To say the same thing to a black woman sounds a bit like 'get back in your box' and conform to my stereotype' to me.

Even with braids and corn rows, perhaps some women just don't want braids and corn rows any more. Maybe they don't like them. Perhaps they spent their whole childhood in braids and cornrows. Perhaps they just want to be free to choose from the same variety of colours and styles that white women do. If they want to relax their hair or lighten it or use weaves instead of just sticking to their natural texture and colour then why the hell shouldn't they?

Why is lightening your hair seen as trying to look less black? If your hair is very dark then only way you can change the colour is to lighten it.

Should black women be stuck with the same hair colour for life, just in case someone accuses them of trying to look more white? That seems very unfair.

I am mixed and attractive. I used to be a teen model (commercial nothing special New look, crappy teen mags etc) I wouldn't have landed as many jobs had my skin been darker and my hair been a tighter texture. I think the industry finds mixed to be "safer" than full on black features and deep dark skin. A mixed person is often a token black person(when they are in fact very light skinned)/token show of diversity.

Although I do look a lot more black than some other mixed people, Like my Dad can pass for white despite being half Jamaican.

I think growing up my white friends could relate a bit more as my culture was intertwined with theirs especially as I was one of few non white people in my area.

Also I can actually find foundation in boots etc. that matches my skin tone across quite a few make-up lines for the most part. Had I been 3 shades darker that would not be the case. I do see models that look like me in magazines and can think oh I might try out that make-up look. If I was 3 shades darker it would probably end up looking a mess as the colours would translate so differently. I find this already when I see beautiful champagne eye looks in magazines on white models that look stunning on them but really ashy and awful on me like i'm wearing silver eye shadow.

So in short I think that the mixed chick image has integrated more with the beauty industry. So it can make life easier for mixed people over black. Not all the time obviously.

As being mixed can also mean you lack a true racial identity as it was kindly pointed out to me on this thread i'm not 100% black.

Regardless of my skin tone I know that being attractive has helped massively in life. I find people are weirdly more willing to do stuff for attractive people. But that's another thread.

^ That was in answer to charley50

DontdrinkandFacebook.

MY Point about weaves as they seem to go along with the big melting pot the nose jobs and the skin lightening (through creams, make-up or photoshop) which all seems to point to a western ideal of beauty in the industry.

take 1980's Iman and a recent picture from Iman's make-up range.

Thanks Goldvelvet. Magazines and advertising to veer more to the light-skinned, mixed family (ikea ad type thing) look you're right. It covers more bases I suppose.
Do high fashion mags like Elle use more 'dark' models? I don't buy magazines any more, but thought they did
I think that in real life though people (in SE London where I am) aren't obsessed with how dark or light someone is; if you've got attractive features people are initially a bit (or a lot) nicer to you. When I say attractive I don't mean white or light, I mean cheekbones, nice mouth (big or smaller), even features and good bone structure.

Where is Grace Jones when ya need her??

Well actually in response to myself; some people are totally obsessed with how dark or light other people are. It's ignorant and sad.

yanb completely U but what % of uk is white?
I have not a clue.

I think that's very true that if you have striking features and a well balanced face people will find you attractive. Or if you have unusual features like piercing eyes people are also drawn to you.

I don't personally care how dark or light people are but I don't think the trend for skin lightening is a positive one. As to me it sends out negative connotations.

I'm drawn to people of all skin tones I think men with really dark skin and chiselled features are pure perfection. But I'm married to a white DH who has lovely chiselled features too and have never had a relationship with a non white person (but that's probably has a lot to do with where I live!) I think all spectrums skin tones are lovely from lily white to black blue but it's actually the bone structure and features on people that I am personally attracted to.

AnotherEpisode I stand by what I say and your posts continue to reinforce my assumptions.Collate your posts and try and decide what your point actually is and whether or not I'm making a huge assumption based on nothing or the glaringly obvious! I genuinely apologise for any offence caused but you are actually creating a divisive environment and giving a false picture of an interesting, though provoking and useful thread. I'm sure many white posters would agree with me!

Totally baffled now. Its like someone picking on you for being a little too much this, a bit too much that, this very precise ever-changing self-imposed set of rules that everyone else is expected to comply with (but will never be good enough to do so).

Again all the best and I hope you settle your demons somewhat! The offer to talk to woc and explore some of your thoughts still stands!

Err, thanks. And I'm sure my demons will thank you as well. I'm not sure why you think its so unusual for people to mix socially with woc, especially in South London, many of my friends are, in fact I've just come back from holiday with a female friend, who is a black South African. I have a family member who is black. I work with people from all sorts of racial backgrounds.

Maybe you are just a tad paranoid?

Charley50 Where is Grace Jones when ya need her??

Presumably the same place as Alek Wek.

what the hell are you on about mistressmia kindly do not address me at all. i was referring to the diversity we have in britain in clothes, food, beauty and this expands to skin colour. Just because you know im muslim it does not mean every topic must turn into the muslim topic. Just do not address me you are full of hatred i do not want to speak to you.

i was born in the uk all my siblings were i will damn well live here all my life or anywhere in the world do not tell me where i should live, who the hell are you, you're not anyone to me, just disgustingly offensive. I've only joined a few days ago, and this is not the first time you've pointed me out and mentioned islam. everything has to be an islamic bloody issue for you? Go and find a sheikh if you want to talk islam all the time, ive not got the time for you.

Don'tdrinkandfacebook.
It is just ignorance then. No one is telling women of colour how to style their hair. They are simply discussing the issue which is more prevalent in America that natural textured hair is criticised as unprofessional and 'nappy'. This attitude means that in order to be successful women of colour are pressured to wear a weave or relax their hair. Both of these can be damaging and painful and are time consuming and costly.
No one is saying women shouldn't relax but instead saying women that who choose not to should be treated equally and not stereotyped.
Yes Caucasian women do style their hair but if they choose to wear it natural which a great number do they aren't seen as unsuitable for the work place.
It's not about popstars looking pretty like you think it is. Although I think it still stands. See the recent Guliana rancic comments about Zendaya and hair discussions about solange knowles.

The Chandler:
Yeah they're both round at Lily Cole's having tea with Tyson Beckford.

I honestly think the hair thing is a bit if a red herring, especially in the UK. Most women now of every ethnicity do something to make their hair look different from how it naturally is.
At my work (education) I have black colleagues with their natural hair just tidily pulled back or in a couple of big plaits. I have a colleague with dreads (she's agency staff though, but I don't think her hair would stop her getting a permanent job in my sector). I'll ask her tomorrow as I find it so interesting, what is, or leads to, discrimination and what is a universal experience for all women offing judged on their looks / hair.

Itsbetterthanabox This exactly! Thank you.

Loads of people were also critiquing beyonce about blues hair Which she just leaves natural.

Being not offing!!!

I'd be interested to see what your colleague said. I really hope she hasn't had any negative comments over her hair in the work place. But I bet she must get asked about her hair on a weekly basis I reckon even if it's just driven by peoples intrigue.

YANBU. Where I live, I see many absolutely stunning black girls/ women (dark skin, natural hair and features that are associated with their ethnicity). There are no shortage of women of colour who could (and should) be featured in our magazines, tv programmes, catwalks etc).

That's the thing Goldvelvet. I really like learning about different cultures (including hair) and sharing mine... Does that sound wanky? I'm white but not 100% English so I get all sorts of questions and misconceptions. Doesn't really bother me although it would if it was offensive. I don't want to offend colleague but I'm interested in her POV and experience.
I should have been a sociologist. Is that still a job?

Birdinthebush there are some beautiful pictures there.... I always love the pictures of Himba women

Alek wek was weird looking notbeautiful. Ud see better looking balck women on the tube every mrng.

Beautiful women of any race are so lucky. And are treated differently. Beauty is its own race. Ugly is the ism. For women anyway.

But you also see plenty of stunning white women elsewhere who are not featured in magazines, catwalks, tv programmes, etc! Not everyone wants to. If you go to Sweden, Estonia, Denmark, The Netherlands, etc it can feel at times as if you are surrounded by models. Except most aren't. Perhaps they are busy doing things like having jobs, not obsessing over appearance and being in (or reading) stupid magazines?

Alek wek was weird looking notbeautiful. Ud see better looking balck women on the tube every mrng.

I guess the fact that she had model proportions and was photogenic and therefore was able to make a career out of it, rather than being famous for attending parties and shagging footballers, had no relevance?

Perhaps its harder for WOC to "make it" because of bitchy, hyper-critical threads like this? So far we've had Alek Wok criticised for looking "weird", Beyoncé for looking too white, Naomi Campbell for wearing a sleek looking straight weave, Aishwarya Rai for being too European looking, Rhianna for having green eyes, Iman for ageing (yes, if you lighten your hair it helps you look younger), mmmn I can't remember the other criticisms but Wow! Of course, various individual posters have been criticised for being mixed race.

It sounds far too hard a standard for anyone to aspire to actually. Maybe there would be 10 people or something in the whole of the UK who could make it? Or maybe 20?