To think the Uk Standards of beauty are suited to White people

[QueenofSouthLondon]

I have noticed as a black women that hardly any celebrities that are considered beautiful are black. In fact I can't think of one black (excluding mixed) or Asian British celebrity that is considered as beautiful by the whole nation.

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered attractive outside my race.

So aibu to think this.

Chandler

I stand by what I say and your posts continue to reinforce my assumptions.

Replace black with Chinese, Asian, Indian, mixed race, woc or whatever, and I still stand by my words.

Collate your posts and try and decide what your point actually is and whether or not I'm making a huge assumption based on nothing or the glaringly obvious!

I genuinely apologise for any offence caused but you are actually creating a divisive environment and giving a false picture of an interesting, though provoking and useful thread. I'm sure many white posters would agree with me!

I'm not sure what your motivations are, especially since you are trying to argue against such obvious points with an 'I'm biting my nose of to spite my face' attitude!

Again all the best and I hope you settle your demons somewhat! The offer to talk to woc and explore some of your thoughts still stands!

AnotherEpisode as an outsider I think your comments to TheChandler are very unfair; she hasn't come across as you've suggested

There are some horrible things being said on this thread - mostly the "you're not black enough to have an opinion" type stuff which is totally counter productive.

It seems that some black women on here want more support and recognition from non-black women but then go on to be offensive by saying that other posters aren't black enough to have a view. Baffling.

I remember back in the 90s, Lauren Hill got heavily criticized for trying to promote beauty in black women. Such a shame.

Why is everyone obliquely referring to me? Just state upfront that it's me you disagree with!

Firstly, I haven't asked for "the support of non black women". I think I'm the only black woman on the thread disagreeing with the OP.

Secondly, you can misinterpret my comments all you like. I don't think you have to be black to make a comment. I just think you have to be black to make the comment as a black person. Your first comment identified yourself as mixed race and only later did you change it to black when I challenged your viewpoints. If you're mixed, you're mixed! I have no idea what it's like to live life as a mixed race person! You may have pressures on you that I don't have. But my experiences may be different to yours. Since I have the kinky Afro hair and the chocolate skin and I've lived my entire life in braids and I've worked in conservative professional environments, I'm telling you want I know.

*what I know

And secondly, your lectures were annoying because you obviously weren't reading my posts. I posted earlier about how black women's hair is NOT considered unprofessional. I backed this up with discussions by black women at lectures discussing the issue of white supremacy and black hair. The posted videos were from the Southbank Centre's Women's Festival and Selfridges Beauty lecture series.

They were called:

• Weave vs Natural? The Politics Of Afro Hair
• Intelligence Squared: Untangling the Politics of Black Hair at Selfridges London

These were British women discussing black hair and beauty standards for black women and the panels were made up of women of different backgrounds and of both mixed and black women. Do you think maybe I understand the issues black women face re hair?

Your response was to post a link to Chris Rock's good hair and suggest I watch it to give myself "more insight into the black hair industry, weaves and relaxers". Er, so because a black person disagrees with you, they must be ignorant of their history and culture?

lime I couldn't remember who had said that but yes, I disagree with some of your points.

Your first comment identified yourself as mixedrace and only later did you change it to black when I challenged your viewpoints.

I'm not sure if this is aimed at me but I haven't relevant my ethnicity throughout the thread

QueenBean I haven't responded to you once. I was responding to goldvelvet who seems to think she has a unique insight into the lives and pathology of dark skinned black women, despite not being one.

Speaking of not being a black woman, is anyone aware that there was a ton of backlash from black women in the US about the Good Hair documentary. It was very problematic in many ways. Maybe goldvelvet could "educate" herself about it?

Oops QueenBean, I just looked and I guess I responded to your last comment about wanting support.

I am mixed raced but identify as black why is that an actual problem to you?. I know lots of mixed people who are the same and identify with one part of their heritage more than others.

I look a lot more black than I do white. My children are also mixed but look a lot more white than they do black so no doubt they will identify with being white. Do you have a problem with that also?

Mixed is a very general term and I used it because I am mixed heritage so at no point have a lied. Just because you have a pre conceived notion of what mixed means doesn't mean I fit that criteria, so I elaborated.

I actually think it's much easier living as a mixed raced person than a black person as they are more widely represented in the media as being seen as attractive and lots of mixed kids are used to model these days. But there are different shades of mixed and some mixed features are more sought after than others. Like my first post with Jasmine. As she has universal good looks that appeal to people of all races.
She is half African American & half German.

I would like to see more black women in the media darker than me as I think there aren't many at all. I am still allowed to have that view.

This thread has raised some interesting questions with regard to how mixed race people are perceived, irrespective of how the person themself self identifies.

Not white, but also not "black enough" seems to be where some posters are at, some coming uncomfortably close to hinting that mixed race people are somehow part of the problem.

I would also like to see more black women wearing their natural hair in the media and I stand by that.

I see more black women with relaxers and weaves and wigs than I do with their natural hair I think that's a shame.

That's why I linked the good hair clip. I think it was entirely relevant to the discussion even if you may not. Lots of people don't find ''nappy hair'' (horrible term) attractive hence the need for relaxers, where as I wish more women felt comfortable to embrace their natural hair texture. I also think other posters would have found it interesting if they had no idea about what goes on in a black hair salon.

yanbu OP and I agree with a lot of other posters especially goldvelvet
I am black and the amount of times I've been told that I am actually pretty for a dark skin girl is unreal this is from other black men

I have zero problem with you being mixed race. But I have lots of problems with comments that you are making on behalf of other women. For example, how do you know it's easier living in the UK being mixed race rather than being black? It doesn't chime with my experiences for a start.

I would love to see more dark skinned women in the media. But I object to statements like this because 1) I don't think they are true and 2) you have no evidence for them.

also my dd2 has a soft curly Afro texture hair which is long for her age it's down her back she is black both me and dp are black but the first question I get asked is if my dp is white or if my daughter is mixed race or 'cooly ' because of the hair she has

I also get told that I shouldn't relax her hair as its "soo soft it doesn't need it" my own hair is natural so I would not be relaxing her hair either

limegoldfinewime You know what I have no evidence that why I said I think I said at as an opinion and not fact. But I forgot that i'm not allowed to voice my opinion on here.

it was in response to this I have no idea what it's like to live life as a mixed race person! You may have pressures on you that I don't have. But my experiences may be different to yours.

Im my opinion women of colour with lighter skin generally showcased more as being attractive over women of colour with darker skin tones . I stand by this and think it is true. I don't think it's right.

Iman (Mrs David Bowie) is very very beautiful here

that's it

goldvelvet Yes, I'm terribly scary. Look, victimhood doesn't suit you so might as well knock it off.

Im my opinion women of colour with lighter skin generally showcased more as being attractive over women of colour with darker skin tones

I agree. And I agree it's wrong. I just happen to disagree with the fact that this means that in the UK:

1. (Non mixed race/dark skinned) black women are generally seen as unattractive
2. (Non mixed race/dark skinned) black women are seen as unattractive to other races
3. "Natural" black hair (including braids or afros) is seen as unprofessional
4. Life is definitely harder for darker skinned black women than mixed race women in the UK

Those are really strong claims that no one has proven and I do not think they are true. You can post lots of things about how America is racist and colorist. I live here and love it but it is. It's a fact. But you both underestimate how difficult life is for African Americans and overestimate how hard life is for Black British people by trying to compare the two. It is quite offensive.

iloveshortsshorts do you think the comments you get about your dd imply that mixed hair is more desirable? I have been told that I am lucky to have my hair type (by other black women) because it grows long, has a ringlet curl pattern and is soft and silky. And lots of compliments from all nationalities and I get a lot of people touching my hair which is weird!

I makes me sad that anyone would think that hair needs relaxing and I think it's cool that you rock natural hair. As I think it's great for black and mixed girls to see woc with natural hair as they constantly see them with weaves in the media, I think they can fuel a false ideal of what is and isn't attractive.

limegoldfinewine I suggest you read your posts back targeted at me. Others have also picked up on your posts towards me. You do seem to have an issue with my contributions to this thread above anyone else's for some reason.

yes definitely I have had from soo many people how lucky she is to have soft hair and how lucky I am that I don't have to do anything to it they should see me when I'm trying to brush out all the little knots with conditioner it takes ages!
since she was a baby she has had random strangers at bus stops, hospitals any where stroke her hair or pull on her curls which I do think is odd as it's just hair but I guess seeing that type of hair on a black child must be "awesome" as said by one woman

goldvelvet

I have a problem with your posts because they are negative, anti-black and closed minded.

I would hate it if any younger black women could see this thread. What terrible messages they would pick up about themselves. I'm lucky that when I was younger all I had was "dark skinned" doctors, lawyers and engineers around me, happily married to men who loved them, not so called "black feminists" around to tell me how terribly I measured up and how awful my life would be.

I think that some people need to remember that anyone can be racist, regardless of their own skin colour.

^^ WTF?