To think the Uk Standards of beauty are suited to White people

[QueenofSouthLondon]

I have noticed as a black women that hardly any celebrities that are considered beautiful are black. In fact I can't think of one black (excluding mixed) or Asian British celebrity that is considered as beautiful by the whole nation.

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered attractive outside my race.

So aibu to think this.

Not read the whole thread but jumping in quickly before bed.

I remember seeing some study on TV once about body image and confidence across women of different races. Black women had much more confidence than white women and were much happier with their looks. This was put down to the fact that they don't see themselves reflected in advertising or on TV nearly as much as white women do and so don't have this 'perfect' image that is impossible to live up to.

On a personal level I saw this everyday for years. I used to be a photographer doing those really tacky makeover shoots, young white women would come in ashamed of how ugly they thought they were and black women would be really pleased with the photos and think they looked great. Of course there were plenty of exceptions to this but overall the different attitudes were really noticeable. I saw the thing on TV some years after I stopped doing that job and it all made complete sense.

Fakename
That's interesting! I can see that that's true but I can also imagine that most of your customers were teens. As a black woman, I was oblivious to any other beauty ideal than that of 'older' black women until I got to my 20's. At this point you realise where a lot of the older black women get their beauty ideals from and try and emulate that as much as possible. AND of course we also take ideals of the beautiful black woman from the media who 9/10 looks like Beyonce and so closer to Pamela Anderson than a lot of our mothers and therefore ourselves!

Actually the clients were from a wide age range.

A sentence I remember from the programme I saw was that white women are bombarded with this image of the perfect white women that is even seen in the (Barbie) dolls they play with from a very young age, they just can't compete with it, but it is reflecting what they are supposed to be. Black girls/women are also subjected to the same 'perfect' images of beauty but because this is so unlike themselves they are able to set them aside and not measure themselves against this ideal more easily.

Of all my black friends, both male and female, none are married/in relationships with fellow black people. Including my husband and me. He is black and one of 7 children, all have white partners. I had never realized this until this thread

Sorry, I know that wasn't the point of this thread, it occurred to me whilst reading it.
As you were, sorry

If I said I was never, ever sexually attracted to another woman and could not imagine ever being, even though I haven't met them all yet, does that make me homophobic?

YANBU OP. I am mixed race, have that 'racially ambiguous' look PP have described (lightly tanned skin, long curly hair, green eyes, 'European' nose etc) but there are is so much variety with mixed race and black people with skin colour, hair texture etc and I would love to see more women with a darker skin tone and unrelaxed hair in the media, its so boring seeing the same type of model used over and over again, I'd welcome more diversity!

AnotherEpisode There is another thread which you have referenced as racist and bullying. Can you link to a particular post within it to verify your claim?

I've already said I'm not going to link it. It contained a number of very racist, unpleasant statements towards white people from a few posters. This thread has been much better, but I'm not going to give the previous thread further light of day.

ALL of your posts scream of self hatred or perhaps just hatred of woc.

I actually have no idea what you're talking about. I really wanted to avoid giving my racial identity, but as a part Chinese woman, maybe you should think about the racial assumptions you are making before you go about making stereotypical generalisations? I've certainly suffered racism myself, but I don't go about with this hangdog attitude that I'm going to interpret every little thing that ever happens in life as being racist - I find that obsessive and neurotic.

You are making comments which make little or no sense and trying really hard to the detriment of your own intelligence and I'm sure logic to simply or justify obvious racist standards of beauty and societal issues.

I've been on the receiving end of the usual comments about my eyes (I have epicanthic folds and a very non-European eye and face shape). But I see the same eye shape, to a greater or lesser degree in many models and media stars who share a similar ethnic background, even if it doesn't fit into your neat division of black, white and south Asian.

I would assume that you have faced a tough time from black women/friends/men or even family members (who knows) but if you take the OP's comments without the baggage that you clearly present, I'd be astonished if in your heart you believe she's wrong.

Can't say that I do. I retain many black friends and for a long time lived with a black man. My aunt is black - my uncle married a black American woman. She's one of the most well balanced people I know, very, very genuine and someone I would go to with problems to discuss. I have never heard this sort of self-pitying obsession from her. I'm no expert but there are several posters on this thread who have echoed the same views, which seem completely at odds with the way you have chosen to interpret things - you and a few other posters have obviously decided the answer you want to prove and then work towards that.

I don't go about adding up who's black and who's white in the way you suggest. I don't share any of the racist attitudes some posters seem to suggest about attraction - I generally consider black men to be more attractive than white, because you simply see a lot of them with more regular features and a better build, but I don't tend to say that as (a) its a personal preference and (b) its pointless, because you also get classically handsome white men, which is the look I prefer, and (c) I'm not single.

The feminism for woc thread is an honest, open, friendly and EDUCATIONAL thread. As a woc I have learnt so much from it. I would encourage ALL women to take an honest and open look.

And could I please suggest that you stop assuming that all Asians are dark skinned as a starting point? And that all non-European features involve skin colour?

I wont get into an argument or tit for tat with you because you are clearly holding a lot of anger towards the likes of me. I'd just recommend you read that thread and open some discussion with woc to see if any of us can change your mind. All the best

Right. Again, you are so far off the mark, its baffling. Very, very patronising, and very, very stereotyping of posters you have assumed to be white. I'd love to know what it is you think you can "change my mind about". Maybe you want a little puppet you can boss about and say the words you want them to?

limegoldfinewine

How is me saying

"It just isn't silky, sexy or professional or even attractive looking to a lot of people sadly."

lecturing white people on black peoples hair? I'm mixed raced but only 1/4 white as my dad is also mixed raced. So I identify with being black although do have a more manageable hair texture due to being mixed and chocolate skin as apposed to very dark brown skin.

I have first hand experience of wearing a "black hairstyle" and being told that it wasn't appropriate. But thank you for letting me know that I am wrong on this matter.

When I was at school turned up to school with box braids in my hair and was asked to remove them because they weren't considered an "appropriate" hair style for school. I live in a predominately white area where I was one of 3 black kids in my school. I complained to the school and was allowed to keep them in.

Dreadlocks are another black hairstyle that I think a lot of people wouldn't consider professional. On a male or female. Which is sad really.

If you are so convinced that it's deemed ok to wear out your natural hair why do the majority of black women in the entertainment industry wear a weave?

Chandeler

Models do not need long hair to model. I have no idea where you got that idea from? If you went into Storm you would see models on their books with long hair, short hair, bobs etc. Also do you understand how a weave works it's almost impossible to style them in an up do as you'll see the tracks of sewn in hair. They are not versatile.

limegoldfinewine, Chandeler

Chris Rock made a whole film about "Good Hair" And black women the trailers here:

It might give you some more insight into the black hair industry, weaves and relaxers.

The media in general has a very skewed representation of women in general. No, "real" black women aren't seen in magazines but neither are middle aged, slightly overweight, short sighted white women. Which is not to say that a greater representation of black women shouldn't be included, it's just to point out that not many "real" white women grace the pages of magazines either

I cannot see though how it's racist to say that you find one type of man more attractive than another, because you've never met them all. I've never met all men 50 years older than me but I can say that I don't find them attractive. It's personal choice, and the world would be very boring if we all fancied exactly the same type of person

I am split. On one hand, I am very partial to redhead with freckles. I find that really delightful and it is not at all my skin of hair type.
On the whole, I am naturally attracted to white women and men. And Attraction is something you cannot decide or engineer, even if it would make the world a fairer place.

But on the other hand, my real TV female character crush is Michonne from the Walking Dead: Gorgeous, deadly, and mentally strong. Physically, she is not like my normal ideal of beauty, as she does not have the caucasian feature that I usually really love, and yet I find her one of the most beautiful woman on TV. And I have the same feeling about the actress, without the katana, hair-do from the serie and clothing.

All this babble to tell you that what is attractive is not a science, and you cannot force a natural leaning, and yet exceptions pop up sometimes.

The feminism for woc thread is an honest, open, friendly and EDUCATIONAL thread.

Apart from its sneering tone about posters on this thread in AIBU. And querying the experiences of posters here who are mothers of mixed race children as if they didn't know what they are talking about.

I saw chris rocks interview on natural black hair a long time ago saddo me lol i find it interesting more so than the usual trash topics chat shows spew out.

With regards to attraction ppl who say they only find their own race attractive i think much has to do with how ppl socialise and live too. They say birds of a feather flock together i guess they have more in common and naturally click. So maybe this explains why these ppl dont find others attractive? I would say its about lack of exposure. If i dont mix with ppl of different backgrounds and am not taught tolerance and respect at a young age this will effect my attitudes.

My sis for example prefers men from her own background. Regarding my siblings getting married she insists they need to be the same ethnic background. My attitude is they can be from any background faith is imporant to me not ethnicity. I find all sorts of ppl attractive its not focused on my ethnic background. If im honest i dont really find men from my own background attractive, i always laugh about the fact my husband is of this background of men, hes an exception lol on a serious note i think its because groeing up ive been exposed to their chauvinistic attitudes so ive wrongly attributed it to all asian men. I know they cant allbe the same but i cant erase that thought. That and i rarely see one i find attractive maybe im wired to like other races is that possible? I wonder if any tests have been carried out.

I don't think they're saying that the mothers of mixed race children don't know what they're talking about, more that they're surprised that some people are determined that racism is a non issue for their children and that this might change once their child reaches adulthood.

goldvelvet

Ugh. Stop trying to lecture me. I'm blacker than you for a start. I'm 100% black with 4c hair. I know all about the good hair documentary and the context of hair and weaves. It's really amusing how you assume that anyone who disagrees with you must know nothing about black people when you show how little you know with these silly lectures.

So your one experience with black hair is your school? Good god. I see so many black people with braids in FTSE 500 companies - you have no idea what you are talking about. At least make realistic claims (I.e. Afros are considered messy or something).

Again, did I fall over and hit my head or is Chris rock American? Are people aware that they don't live in America? Where are the examples of British women?

Also maybe people responded badly to your hair because you are not black? Braids and Afros to me always look strange on white people and frankly can look quite strange on some mixed race people. It doesn't look "natural" sometimes. As a black person who was related to every black person in my school (that's 2 if you're counting), no one had a problem with my hair.

Ofafrench mind i am straight but if someone asked me which women i rate as attractivei always choose red heads in the main. I think their natural red hair against the very pale skin is hauntingly beautiful. Its nothing to do with the white skin honestly its just a very unique look to me minus that red hair the white skin pales into insignificance. If my skin was lighter id dye it a subtle red. But i think i have to stick to darker reds so ive held back its such a common look with asians im looking for the right red.

Talking of anglocising ethnic looks anyone ever seen an indopak blonde? I had a friend who had it very close but it had a tinge of copper notes. It did make her look more spanish. I like the ambiguous look too maybe im just weird.

It's catagorically saying 'I am and will not be attracted to people of that race'. It's more I just don't think it's true! People of each race do not look and act the same. So you could very well meet someone you would find attractive if you didn't have this prejudice and stereotype. It's the closed minded attitude of it that's the issue.
I do also think it's influenced by pop culture. People do as they're told and find those who are revered by society attractive. It's all cultural.

limegoldfinewine Why do you think I'm lecturing you? Why is inputting my experiences and thoughts taken as lecturing?

I'm blacker than you for a start. Good for you didn't realise it was a competition. Gold star for you. Apologies that i'm not black enough for you does that mean I am not allowed to comment?

My experience at school was showcasing how others don't see black hair as being appropriate. I'm sorry that this experience isn't sufficient for you. I don't live in an area where there are lots of black people so braids are not the norm.

Can anyone else please confirm if my post have been lecturing as I can't personally see it.

Lime it just seems like you have an issue with me for some reason?

Don'tdrink for than analogy to work it would have to be sexist not homophobic.
Either way it's completely different. Women and men do have completely different sexual organs and functions. Whereas black and white women are the same and so are black and White men. We just have different skintone.

Lime Also maybe people responded badly to your hair because you are not black?

Are you actually kidding me? I din't realise your skin had to be a certain shade to be able to wear box braids. i'm so sorry that my skin is a lighter chocolate brown and not dark brown. I'm also sorry that you have an issue with me choosing to wear my hair as an afro from time to time because i'm mixed. You sounds like you have soon deep rooted issues TBH.

Im getting vibes to not post here unless im 100% black so ill get my 100% brown tanned behind out of here lol

Anya79 Mixed, white, black, Asian everyone should be able to have an opinion on this post whether they agree or disagree with the op.

Just some people seem very angry on here and dismissive of people who aren't 100% black for some reason. But that's their own issue to work through and not ours.

I think i will be annihilated soon but no goldvelvet i thght u had an informative tone and just sharing ur experiences, which i can understand being a brown asian not black sorry..Also irrelevant if goldvelvet is partly black if she identifies with the race her views are just as valid. I see this sort of discrimination amongst asians too regarding tone of skin, sad world we live in

I also love braids i didnt realise i had to be black to don braids i best not ever get them,but then i wear hijab so ill do what the hell i like with my hair i donr think hsirstyles and fashions nor cuisines should be owned by anyone group, if there are any positives of living in the west this is it.