To think the Uk Standards of beauty are suited to White people

[QueenofSouthLondon]

I have noticed as a black women that hardly any celebrities that are considered beautiful are black. In fact I can't think of one black (excluding mixed) or Asian British celebrity that is considered as beautiful by the whole nation.

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered attractive outside my race.

So aibu to think this.

TheChandler

Do you think Naomi would have got as much work if she wore her natural hair which looks much like the model below over her usual long black weave which is a completely different texture to her natural hair. Unlike lots of white celebs who wear extensions to enhance their own hair texture by adding length and volume!

Also there is a difference from enhancing your natural hair to basically wearing a full wig that is sewn to your head which is the case for the majority of black women in Hollywood or in the public eye.

The only White celebs that wear full wigs are the likes of Joan Collins, Barbra Windsor etc, who are trying to hold onto their youth and the hair that they used to naturally have.

I don't think she would goldvelvet. You need seriously versatile hair for modelling, and that usually means long, except for a select few models who have a look. Its all the backcombing and styling - it destroys all but the strongest hair.

There may well be models out there who do manage with one hairstyle without being that well known, and the image of the black model you have provided appears to be one of them.

It's slowly changing over time , but a bit too slow

Agree the fake tan is to look Mediterranean / beachy

Not sure what else I can say - Yanbu

We are not quite an integrated society just yet are we

Natural black hair is very versatile TheChandler, you can have locks, twist outs, cornrows, braids, straighten it etc.

It just isn't silky, sexy or professional or even attractive looking to a lot of people sadly.

yes some people to use skin whitening products to look as though they are from a different race

along with coloured eye contacts and lightening their hair, or to at least look mixed race or so fair that you can not possibly be fully Asian some women in the far east even have operations on their eyes to make them look more rounded and more european

and it is very different from tanning, simply because being white has been the beauty ideal that has been pushed on to us from a young age tanning goes in and out of fashion

Frankly I don't really care what other people think standards of beauty are, I see beauty in all colour, race and age.

I would love hair like Nina Sosanya's was in Teachers. I kid myself it would be low maintenance as no brushing required

I think the same as velvet im jealous of afro hair. If black hair is just long enough to braid then it super versatile i love what black people do with their natural hair. My fave look is the all out volumised afro, even jlo tried to achieve the afro on one of her vids yonks ago, its soo cool, wonder why the fashion industry cant see that? The closest i can get to afro hair is serious back combing, i used to do it for my sis but shes a nutter hard core rock fan lol

Chandler you say naomi needs her long fake hair for versatile looks in her job, but for a loong time i just see the same straight long hair on her just a different length, theyve simply done it for the european feature nothing else.

goldvelvet

why not - that model got work. or where are the pictures from?

My problem with this is that these examples are not British. I think if you want to call British society racist, you have to give British examples. Beyonce or Aishwarya Rai are all fine but neither of them grew up in England.

Again, where is the evidence that black women are not considered attractive "outside of their race" in England as the OP stated?

I'm a black woman. I guess I am about the same shade as Naomi Campbell. The only people I hear telling me I'm ugly are so called "black feminists". Every time I read an article, it's "no one finds us attractive", "white people think we're ugly", "we're going to die alone". Yet every black person I know is in a relationship and most with white people. Even the OP didn't even post "X person said I wasn't attractive because I'm black". I think there is an undercurrent of racism in the glee with which people are happy to assume that every black person is ugly and alone because Society.

goldvelvet Natural black hair is very versatile TheChandler, you can have locks, twist outs, cornrows, braids, straighten it etc.

I am aware of that! However, not if its short.

I think Naomi's natural features have been the basis of her phenomenal modelling career, not her hair. i.e. she has done well (as has the black model in the picture above) in modelling despite as some say not being blessed in the natural hair department.

The history of tanning (in Northern European cultures) is related to class. Having a tan or freckles signified you worked on the land. It was considered very undesirable and women bleached their skin with lemon juice and used various concoctions (including those containing lead and mercury) to ensure it was white.

In the 1920s Coco Chanel (a white woman) popularised the tan and it became desirable because it showed you were rich enough to holiday on the Med. This continued through the 1950s, when Bardot came along with topless sunbathing, package holidays took off and until the 80s having a really deep tan was desirable and showed you could afford foreign holidays. In the 90s came the backlash, and celebrities became paler but as fake tans became 'better' - the orange Katie Price / Towie style look was popularised. And it's come full circle - with pale skin being the goal for fashionistas and 'tanned' skin being popular with younger, less affluent people.

In other words, having a tan has NOTHING to do with white women wanting to resemble black women and everything to do with wealth and social class.

Whereas the history of skin whitening is tied up in 'passing' as white and the desirability of paler skin. In post-slavery America whitening products were used by people trying to pass as white (remember many black Americans had white ancestry because their mothers and grandmothers were repeatedly raped by slave owners). Whitening products are also prevalent in Asian and African countries that were colonised by northern Europeans.

It's a completely false dichotomy to compare tanning with skin lightening.

Fake tan is for brown skin saying its meditteranean seems to glamorise it because lets be honest what white person would want to say im tanning to look indian or pakistani admit it please?. Its hip and sexy to say medditeranian or brazilian because they are still lighter and apparently more exotic, and something white folks can identify as beautiful.

Okay - more comprehensive answer.

Most of the "light skin/dark skin thing" is bullshit very recently imported from America. Please educate yourself. It wasn't a preference - it was a matter of life and death. African Americans (even those who are "dark skinned" in the US today are biracial through the historical rape of slaves. The lighter skinned slaves got better privileges (i.e. rape rather than death). That created a seriously fucked up hierarchy in America where in modern America you couldn't join sororities or fraternities at all black colleges unless you were light skinned. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_skin_color#Brown_paper_bag_test

But what has that got to do with the UK? Why would black people in the UK divide themselves by "light and dark skin"? In the UK, we have our own ethnic histories. Nigerian, Kenyan, Ghanaian, Ethiopian, Caribbean*. Why would a light skinned Ghanaian person consider themselves more like a light skinned Nigerian person than a dark skinned Ghanaian person? It makes NO SENSE.

Also, don't the statistics show that British of African origin (who are likely darker skinned) do better in school statistically than both Caribbean AND mixed kids, who are likely lighter skinned? This is the exact opposite of America.

• Caribbeans are more similar statistically to African Americans so it doesn't surprise me that they might fall for this colourist crap.

limegoldfinewine I had to scroll for ages through google images to get that image when I was searching for natural black hair, as it's almost impossible to find a model like that with short natural hair un styled. As most of the photographic models have hair like mine which is a much looser curl pattern and long. Or wear their hair in a twist out etc.

Lots of black women don't actually have this type of natural hair, it's actual called "good hair" amongst black people. The majority have very coily tight curls like the women I pictured so relax it or wear a weave and generally breaks before it gets a chance to grow long.

Anya79 my mother (unusual look really) was often mistaken for being Indian or Pakistani when tanned, otherwise white, or white enough to pass as white. She could never, ever have passed for medditeranian or brazilian in a million years! I don't think she had any desire to. Is it that common to want to look as though you're Italian or Spanish etc or from Brazil? Does anyone care any more?

TheChandeler

You can do all of those styles with the hair that pictured. I'm guessing you are not black and have no real knowledge of what goes on in black Salon. It's pure magic I tell you!

You do realise that she has cornrows under her weave don't you?

Tondalayo your history of tanning was interesting because the same could be said of indians in terms of colour and class.

goldvelvet

Sorry if it looks like I'm attacking you but I'm not interested in listening to a mixed race person lecture white people on why black people's natural hair is not considered professional.

you said:

"It just isn't silky, sexy or professional or even attractive looking to a lot of people sadly."

That's not what Diane Abbott, Funmi Fetto (Times journalist) or Sandie Okoro (chief legal counsel at HSBC and one of the most powerful black women in the UK) say. They are asked about this and each one rubbishes the claim that black women cannot have natural hair in the UK in a corporate job. People need to stop parroting this crap because it's this rather than actual prejudice that keep people down.

But don't take my word for it (watch the videos):

Sorry, it's actually Eva Simpson not Funmi Fetto who states this.

More videos

goldvelvet I'm simply pointing out that most models need long, versatile hair. At least when they are starting out.

Your pointing to black models with short hair shows that their natural attributes, other than their lack of long hair, is what allows them to model.

Chandler.....

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to pull you up on a few things!

There is another thread which you have referenced as racist and bullying. Can you link to a particular post within it to verify your claim?

ALL of your posts scream of self hatred or perhaps just hatred of woc.

You are making comments which make little or no sense and trying really hard to the detriment of your own intelligence and I'm sure logic to simply or justify obvious racist standards of beauty and societal issues.

I would assume that you have faced a tough time from black women/friends/men or even family members (who knows) but if you take the OP's comments without the baggage that you clearly present, I'd be astonished if in your heart you believe she's wrong.

The feminism for woc thread is an honest, open, friendly and EDUCATIONAL thread. As a woc I have learnt so much from it. I would encourage ALL women to take an honest and open look.

I wont get into an argument or tit for tat with you because you are clearly holding a lot of anger towards the likes of me. I'd just recommend you read that thread and open some discussion with woc to see if any of us can change your mind. All the best

Dunno chandler but its funny that chanel were encouraging white ppl to look mediteranian because theres a vast colour range up there and even In brazil. Some are darker than white folks would desire, but the media doesnt like to point this out afterall this is not the beauty we want to see right?

I think some ppl are inspired by tgw jaffa when using tanning beds or lotions...kidding lol
You get the jaffa inspired hair in asians too, using mendhi for the blonde sorry ginger look too lool. Sometimes you have to see the lighter side of it.