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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not pay an au pair other than room and board?

133 replies

smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 14:13

now that I've got your attention, I'm not mean, I just want to know if it's legally possible?

Have a friend in desperate need of accommodation. Due to our deeds I cannot have a lodger but I can have an au pair.

I really want to help but I can't afford to PAY to have them stay. Can we do a straight childcare/home help for accommodation swap without any money involved?

Thanks

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 15:55

And if she's been here more than 5 years she should be applying for a permanent residents certificate.
Her child is british born?

The UK's additional right to reside tests over and above the standard EU ones have been deemed unfair and are currently being challenged in the European courts of justice.

kickassangel · 28/02/2015 15:56

If the freeholder starts asking questions, is there any reason why you couldn't say she was your au pair? They can't demand to see your bank account or demand proof, can they? If you're worried about being caught out in a lie, because of other people sticking their nose in, remember that you're not breaking the law or the lease.

There's not irrefutable legal definition of an au pair. If people start getting nosy, you can tell them to mind their own business, or say she's the live-in nanny, or just be vague and say she helps with child care.

Or tell everyone you're a bi-sexual in a three-way relationship. You, your DH and (new) DW are all very happy together as one big, single family, and isn't it great for the kids to grow up in this atmosphere of live and love together?

BabyDubsEverywhere · 28/02/2015 15:56

Do you currently pay for Childcare? Could you pay her that as a live in nanny?

UniS · 28/02/2015 15:56

If it OK to have a live in "maid", would the title housekeeper or mother's help work better than au pair?

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:56

not saying I WON'T inform them, I want to do things right, just that we have to consider how to proceed, if we proceed as a "family" then I will tell TCs. I think we're sort of at the borderline between "guest" and that now at this point so we need to think about moving forward and the possible outcomes

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:58

We get financial help with childcare, we investigated nannies before but can't afford one unless OFSTEAD registered (which costs money to do)

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 15:59

I think you're confusing issues. Considering yourselves as a family unit for the purposes of your housing situation does not by any stretch mean you have to do so for tax credits or anything else. Each purpose is a distinct entity. Tax credits are interested in your spouse/partner and your dependent children.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/02/2015 16:01

OP can I ask if you know any timescales on this - in other words, how long is she likely to need to use your more "settled" address while waiting for various benefits / housing to come through?

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:04

obviously residency will be looking at historic stuff and we can only help with current details (potentially), but the application itself can take 4 months, she's been here nearly 2 so we're still borderline "guest"

We are a family of sorts. A strange hybrid temporary family but it does feel like a family, her child calls me "aunty". Adult partners don't have to be sexual partners so noone can tell us we're NOT a family I guess.

OP posts:
PausingFancy · 28/02/2015 16:07

Could she be your maid who only works 1 hour a week? 10 mins a day?

Then pay her NMW for that - which can be evened out in food shopping?

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:10

Pausingfancy, from squinting at the HMRC link that I don't fully understand.. I think there's set rules about how you can ofset accomodation for paid employment, but I couldn't really grasp what that was all about.

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 16:15

I really think you should stop trying to fake an employment. You can't employ a live in maid who works an hour a week and is paid whatever amount full board and lodging would be costed at. It would be obviously fake and would be worse for you all to be caught out in daft lies. Especially when there doesn't appear to be any need for it whatsoever.

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat · 28/02/2015 16:18

I think the Hmrc link is about the maximum amount an employer can value accommodation at when an employee is earning around the minimum wage.

It will be to stop unscrupulous employers claiming that accommodation provided is 'worth' £150 pw for example so the employee only ends up with a tiny amount after their accommodation costs have been deducted.

ImperialBlether · 28/02/2015 16:25

Can't you just lend her the money for a month's deposit and a month's rent in advance for a flat? That would seem a much easier way of doing it. She could then get help for housing and living either through benefits or through benefits and work.

What happens if you and she fall out? That's not unlikely really as she'll be in your home much more than you are and you might feel it's more her home than yours. Your husband might get fed up of her living there. What will she do for spending money?

It seems you will stay better friends if you help her get her own place.

countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 16:29

if op gives her the deposit and 1st month for a flat, how is her friend going to pay for it after that with no job?

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:33

countessmarkyabitch i'm not trying to fake an employment, I was investigating whether her doing childcare alone would properly count in exchange for accommodation, but it doesn't look viable

au pair was the only job I picked out of the list (which included maid) which I considered as an arrangement which might potentially work. I was never considering maid, I was just answering other people's posts about maids

I don't want to fake anything at all, I want to help but only if it's above board

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:34

She has a deposit for a flat. You think that's all it takes these days? really?

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 16:35

I was really saying that to other pp who were offering suggestions on same (but trying to be polite, obviously badly Wink)

ImperialBlether · 28/02/2015 16:37

There's no need to be sarcastic. You said she was homeless but you didn't mention she had a deposit for a flat.

What is the problem then with her finding a flat? Is it that she can't afford the home she wants, hasn't got a reference from a landlord or because she'd be on benefits and won't get accepted because of that?

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:38

if Au pair had been viable, we would have actually worked out an au pair arrangement, not just said/faked we were doing it

Of course we might fall out - this isn't ideal for anyone. I thought my housemate days were long gone but hey, it's actually okay for now, we've fallen into some wierd form of routine. Noone would PLAN to be in this situation, but since we are that's what we're working with. It really could happen to anyone. She'll be back on her feet as soon as she gets a sliver of a break.

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 16:43

Imperial, again, how will OP's friend pay her rent if she just gets a flat? And how many ll's will take her as a non-uk lone parent with no job?

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:43

oh I see countessmarkyabitch, sorry

Yeah I just mentioned maid as an example of one of the other jobs on the list that counted as a single family unit which I DIDN'T think might be viable. Au pair was the only one that stuck out as a potential possibility.

It can be really hard to get a rental, it's not as simple as rocking up with a deposit! When DH and I last rented we had to pay 6 months up front even though we both worked because the only rich people we know are retired and they weren't accepted as guarentors! And that was in a rental market where there WERE flats available in that area at that time….

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:46

some agents have told her that even if she paid 6 months she still needed a guarantor (what on earth for? if the rent is PAID how can someone guarentee to pay it if you don't pay.. what's already paid???)

some are now asking for two guarentors (again that makes no sense for above reasons)

and FWIW she also does have a guarentor.. but she's still a lone parent with a foreign accent, out of work in a market where there's a wait list even for bedsits cause there's more people wanting properties round here than vacant ones at the mo! Landlords can pick'n'choose at the mo!

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 16:51

and no, she's not being "fussy" she's viewing everything - bedsits, studios, whatever she can.

I know it's hard to imagine it's that hard to get back to some sort of normal dignified living if a few chain of events knock you off track. I think most of us don't WANT to believe you can end up stuck in their situation because it really could happen to any of us! If anyone can dig themselves out it's her she's not defeatist or pickey or anything like that so there really is no more to this story that what is stated, plan B, C, D, E, F, G & H have been tried. She's here for now, so we'll do what we can with this situation

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 28/02/2015 18:01

countess, I don't know how she can pay her rent - I don't know whether she's eligible to benefits here and have no idea of her employability as those things haven't been mentioned.