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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not pay an au pair other than room and board?

133 replies

smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 14:13

now that I've got your attention, I'm not mean, I just want to know if it's legally possible?

Have a friend in desperate need of accommodation. Due to our deeds I cannot have a lodger but I can have an au pair.

I really want to help but I can't afford to PAY to have them stay. Can we do a straight childcare/home help for accommodation swap without any money involved?

Thanks

OP posts:
OutragedFromLeeds · 28/02/2015 15:27

I think her having a baby will complicate any au pair/live-in nanny situation. You might get away with claiming she's your au pair, but how are you going to explain the baby?!

From the sounds of it you are living as a family unit, so just carry on as you are. Be honest with the freeholder. Your family unit has grown, there is now one extra adult and one extra child living as part of your family.

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:27

being EU you still need to be "resident" for some claims, she's free to work without a visa (and is applying to get back to work), but claiming benefits hasn't been as straight forward

We did initially think temp housing would be a way to go but it's been investigated and doesn't look as straight forward as a few months in a BnB

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 15:28

Shelter would of course advise her to become your lodger, since that would give her legal rights of renting a room from you (it would also mean that her homelessness was solved and shelter could move on down their list, so win/win). But you can't do that with your lease.
Official status in your home, other than being a lodger, doesn't mean anything. It doesn't give any legal protection to her. It doesn't affect the status of any benefit claims.

You can't give her any legal help due to your lease. She can't be your lodger. She can't be your au-pair. She can't be your maid. Now your only decision is to have her as a guest in your home or not.

merrymouse · 28/02/2015 15:30

It sounds as though you are after a definitive answer, but with the best will in the world, I don't think you can get that unless somebody can look at your deeds. In a situation this specific, I think you need to talk to somebody who can look at your situation and give you proper advice, even though, if a charity like Shelter can't help you out, this may involve cost.

I also agree that you would have difficulty classifying her as an au pair as she clearly hasn't come from abroad and isn't staying in your house for a cultural experience.

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:30

So by the sounds of it, what we are doing is okay? I can have her here "officially" if we keep doing what we're doing?

My worry is that once we approach the freeholder saying "this is our situation, can we have permission" then we can't back track on it if he says "no, cease doing that now". We don't need permission to have another baby, but do need permission for subletting, which includes lodgers, and again the flat would need to be occupied as a "single family unit"

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:32

"It doesn't affect the status of any benefit claims" it does, indirectly. Because having official residency status will help her other claims. There is a section in the residency application which is about proving "future intentions" where ideally you OWN a home here, if not have a proper lease

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snowsjoke · 28/02/2015 15:34

I think what Countess is saying is the best advice. Let her register with the homeless system and be given temporary accommodation. She can still spend several nights with you but will be in the system for longer term housing. She will have an address from which to start building up a fiscal life etc. It doesn't really seem as if the current way is going to work for either of you legally.

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:34

preference for being a lodger is also based on the legal advice she's had about her residency application in order to help her benefit claims, not just from shelter..

but that's all academic, we can't offer that

OP posts:
merrymouse · 28/02/2015 15:35

Sorry, I see she is from abroad.

However, as an au pair I don't think she would have any particular rights as it isn't really a proper job. (The role is designed to sidestep employment legislation.)

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:36

okay so temp accomodation or "family unit" seem like the two options to work with, au pair I think is off the cards

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:37

merrymouse that was her concern too, au pair makes her look "temporary" which is bad for other claims

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countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 15:37

I don't see why you need to approach the leaseholder at all. You aren't subletting. You aren't employing someone. If you consider her part of the family (and who decides what family is? Not your leaseholder, anyway) then you have broken no rules. Your leaseholder could argue that you are TWO separate family units, but if she's not sharing in the costs, you're acting as one family unit by sharing domestic burdens etc, he'd have difficulty proving it.

She can give your (her!) address for all official purposes, since it is her actual address. I'd be very surprised if there were any official claims she was making as an EU citizen that were affected by living with friends/family rather than renting in her own right (obviously she should check this out properly though).

traviata · 28/02/2015 15:38

Can you post the exact words of your deeds? because 'subletting' has a very specific meaning. It does not actually mean sharing.

see my pp. A lodger has limited legal rights independent of their landlord (ie the landlord would be you in this case). Someone who is subletting is a tenant of their landlord; they have far more substantial independent legal rights.

Yes, by the sound of it, what you are doing is ok, and you don't need to ask permission, but please post the exact words because they make a difference.

countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 15:38

If you decide to keep her with you rather than going fully homeless and all that entails, obviously.

InfinitySeven · 28/02/2015 15:40

Ah, I think I understand what she needs to do. To prove future intent, she needs to ideally own somewhere, but if not, being added to your lease is the next best thing.

Do carefully consider the implications to you. It's a lovely thing to do, but you need to balance helping her with your own family. If you claim any benefits of your own, take advice on how they'd be affected, and she may find that your family affects get claims too. It may not be possible to get living as one family unit for one purpose but not for another. Make absolutely sure you won't be expected to support her financially.

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:40

"I'd be very surprised if there were any official claims she was making as an EU citizen that were affected by living with friends/family rather than renting in her own right"

yeah, so was she but it seems they're tightening up on proving permanent residency, which is another reason why temp housing and going on the list isn't reliable till official residency has been granted

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:42

We have separate tax credits claims to her, will that be a problem?

I'll get the exact wording in a bit just dont wanna get paper work out while kids are hyper

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:44

InfinitySeven we own the leasehold, so we're not adding her to that, its the only little bit of security we have for our own kids, we don't have massive incomes or any safety net

I'll do anything to help except risk my own kid's security

OP posts:
Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:45

not that she is "risky", just that that's pretty much all we've got IYKWIM

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countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 15:48

Proving permanent residency is usually about how long you have lived in the country, employment status, whether you are domiciled for tax purposes, where your bank accounts are etc etc, not who you live with.
How long has she lived in the UK?

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:51

The "future intentions" section asks about your home and the status of that

She's been here for years but there's various catches that might affect her so it's not a given at all, but again I'm not going to go into that here, they're here personal details. Just to say that an official home would help and we want to investigate if there's any way we can help with that one bit of her claim

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/02/2015 15:51

I think tax credits will get very complicated, yes. You definitely need to tell them because they are bastards Ud guess you would need to do a joint claim with your friend.

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:51

the form has recently been made much longer and asks for a lot of things

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 28/02/2015 15:52

Just checking, she should be able to pass a habitual residence test rather than prove permanent residency, which is a very different thing.

Original poster
smellysocksandchickenpox · 28/02/2015 15:54

I don't even know how to start to find out about tax credits?? (without actually informing them which we don't want to do until we know if that's a route we can take.. which we need the info for FIRST)

Its not a particularly common family set up is it? DH and I work but she doesn't at present, I'm going from salary to 0 hours variable pay next week. We are currently claiming for childcare (1 day a week)

Doubt it'll be in the FAQs :-S

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