To think it isn't always possible for a lone parent to work with preschool children?

[turquoiseamethyst]

I was thinking about this from another thread, but I promise this is not a TAAT.

Depending on the age gaps between the children, nursery or childminder fees could just work out too high making working literally too expensive! Plus, not all work is 9-5 and round the clock childcare in the form of a nanny is beyond many people cost-wise.

AIBU? In a way I want to be told I am but I don't think I am...

It's not true that tax credits cover up to 70% of childcare costs. I didn't qualify for a penny despite being on a part-time wage and using two registered childminders and spending thousands per year on childcare.

I received £55 pm working tax credit but nothing for the childcare element.

So YANBU. Like you say not many people are in 9-5 jobs where childcare can be arranged easily. I used to leave my home at 7am and sometimes needed evening childcare as well. (Btw it all fell apart for me.)

I have yet to have a single penny of child care costs covered by tax credits.

It is dependent on your income. I was in a £16k per year full time job and got a lot in tax credits

well it is obviously dependant on income! Band why have they said you don't qualify?

sorry Flippity I realise my last post looks like I am shouting at you!

YANBU to have discovered this.

After a few years out of my 'game' my earning potential plummeted and I couldn't have earned enough to pay for everything and childcare. Even without childcare costs I would have struggled to earn enough because working costs (sandiwches, work clothes, endless collections, tights, travel etc)

I was patient and got through it. Occasionally I feel like I was kicked while I was down, people who had managed to make it work judged me, but I know I did the best thing for the two children. They'd just lost their father and at least they had me close by for a couple of years. They've grown up. Now childcare requirements are minimal and I can manage to work and make it work. I mean, I can work now without operating at a loss every month.

It isn't easy OP.

I didn;t qualify because none of the companies I paid for holiday clubs were ofsted registered (see above). Even the after school club on school premises (subcontracted by the school) didn't count because the actual company providing the after school care is not ofsted registered.

Actually have just discovered that our school provider is very recently ofsted registered ... on the phone to HMRC on MOnday then!

ps, I don't mean I was particularly patient, just that patience was the solution. My children have grown up a bit. That was the answer for me.
I'm not in the UK but I do find that people who are shored up by the more successful economic unit of being in a family used to tell me (again and again) about subsidised creches for those on benefits. but the truth was that they were only mornings and wouldn't even have covered a full school day. They were also in the direction away from town/station (and I didn't have a car).

The staff of the subsidised creche weren't welcoming either. They were used to dealing with the children of long term institutionally unemployed / drug users' children and I felt (perhaps I was paranoid) that they felt I was a middle class woman milking the system. They didn't get back to me so I don't think it was entirely paranoia.

But there were a few people would repeatedly tell me about the existence of these subsidised creches and they believed from the comfort of their more financially secure position that I was just finding excuses not to work.

Not everybody. A lot of people got it. But there were a few who just didn't/wouldn't/couldn't get it.

Ghosty - well, your ex has your children sometimes; I'm unfortunately not in a position where this is possible.

There are a few posts on here, countess, that indicate it is indeed possible.

In some circumstances, of course it is, but not every one!

Kewcumber, I agree with you, I only manage it now (eldest about to go to secondary) because of my mother. Obviously before then we will have the Easter Holiday and the Summer HOliday and she will pick up the slack there too.

Without her, I still mightn't have made it back in to the work place. Because my mum is 72 now and she can cope with children who sit at the table and get on with their homework, eat what's put before them or play on their devices or go for a cycle or read.......... she wasn't able for younger children when she was about 68. I think she used to hear my noisy boisterous children coming and feel tired. It works a lot better now. Now they are old enough to make her feel young! five years ago they just made her feel tired. And I get that! Children are work. A lot of my friends found it odd that she didn't start childminding full time so I could work, but I always understood what a huge undertaking that would be.

I was just answering your post! He doesn't have my children sometimes - he is a parent to OUR children and take that role seriously

I'm not saying it's easy just answering your question on how people manage - you are being a bit bitey

I found it easier to work when mine were pre school - now they are teens it is actually more difficult weirdly.

YANBU to an extent. There are too many variables to consider though when it comes to single parenting and working.

I've been a single parent of one school age child. Worked full time, shifts (NHS). I am fairly certain that I would have struggled without help from my mum at that particular time in my life. The problem being unsocial hours - and that I had been qualified and in my first job for 3 months at the time of the separation. I couldn't do what I do without doing the shifts. Just not possible, certainly as a newly qualified.

I'm 6 years down the line, and am a single parent again. This time I have a 2 year old, and a baby due in June. I have been working FT again - without help from my mum. A flexible childminder, with a 17 year old childcare student (niece of a friend) providing overnight care for my 12 and 2 year old.

Total cost for a months FT childcare was £900. Tax credits paid all the registered CM's fees (obviously couldn't claim back what I was paying for the overnight care!!!!). So total cost to me ended up being around £200.

What I deduced from this time of FT working shifts was that it was fucking horrible, and while financially I could do it, it was at the detriment of my children, with having the need for 24/7 childcare some days!

I am now on sick leave prior to mat leave. But when I return I already know I will not be working FT with 2 preschool children. No way, no how.

I have requested to do 15 hours (will have to do the odd extra shift to ensure I'm doing 16 hours for TC). This is likely to still be shift work, so will need a CM who can accommodate this.

I will also need to pay full time (7 days a week) childcare because shift work means I can't have set working days. The only thing I am likely to get help from through work is not working nights. Previously when I was newly qualified, my employer would never have accommodated this request. But I've 6 years FT experience, I'm good at what I do, and very competent. My employer generally will treat this more favourably, but won't agree to set shifts. Not doing nights is probably the best I can hope for.

So the upshot is, yes I'll likely be able to work in my current role with 2 preschool children. I will need adjustments to allow me to do this. And I will need to pay the maximum amount in childcare that TC's will pay.

Seems a bit crazy when I will be doing 15 hours, to have to pay for 2 FT (and more!) childcare places, AND have these funded for by the government (who also pay my wages!! ). But that is the only choice I really have. Total cost of childcare is circa £1200 pm, it will really depend on what the CM will agree to.

I could work more - but it isn't worth the stress or hassle for a single parent with 3 children (particularly the ages of my younger 2!). And TC's will cover the costs fully, so whatever.

It does strike me as crazy, but I'll manage it though hook or by crook. I've been juggling it for the last 12 years with my oldest. I can do this again. But just because I can - doesn't mean someone else in the exact same position can. They may have a child with additional needs... or may not be able to find a CM who does unsocial hours. Or an employer who says they have to work nights. The list is endless.

It's very individual, isn't it?

Sunny yes, for me it is easier to find unsocial childcare than childcare for my 12 year old.

He will have to be on his own up to 2 evenings a week at his dads until 7pm (if I am on 2 late shifts). Or he will have to get himself up and out for school if I am on 2 early shifts (and I'll have to trust him to do this).

Luckily - his dad will do this. Otherwise I'd either have to leave him home alone til 10pm, or well, I don't know really!

My younger child and the new baby - no. I'm hoping by the time they are 11 something might have changed .

That should have said the younger child and baby won't have their dad around to be able to take the slack with childcare.

yes, one of my children had additional needs. It was another obstacle.

Honestly, I'm happy for flippety that she made it work but she had the advantage of an x who took the children at least some of the time, and she lived in a town where there was work. There are so many variables.

How close you live to an area where there's work
How much money you can earn
the cost of childcare and the number of children you have
how much help you get from family
whether the children's father helps
hours you work and whether there's flexibility
whether children have any addition needs
whether the mother herself has any 'impediments' to working.

I don't think anybody can judge that somebody else is being UN reasonable for not having managed to make working work for them as a single parent.

YANBU, but this is why people who are low earners or who don't have family ready to step in and do childcare need to be very careful about their family planning.

I can see that some people genuinely wouldn't be able to work while they have childcare costs, but that's why I believe we should scrap all child related benefits and provide free childcare instead. Until that happens, people shouldn't be having children they can't afford.

Ghosty - I wasn't being bitey at all, but you did say I was being unreasonable because you had done it - and your circumstances allowed for that.

Point taken re our/my children, but since I have sole responsibility for mine, I do tend to think in those terms :)

Ptolemys - well yes, except circumstances do sometimes change and also, need everyone plans their families!

My ex was my toddlers main carer (and was going to be the new baby too).

I don't think you can plan for them fucking off and not having anything more to do with their kids (or turning out to be grade a creepy cunts).

It wouldn't have mattered if I was a low, middle or high earner.

I can't 'afford' childcare even though I earn well. I can afford it while tax credits the government are paying though.

Ah, yes. Family planning. We should all have planned for abusive partners, dead partners etc many of the reasons someone may be a single parent as a low earner.

I'm not a particularly low earner, but there's absolutely no way I can cover x 2 pre-schoolers in full time childcare.

Hmmm I'm sure we all set out to become single parents because naturally all relationships last the course (luckily am not one any more though)

Of course it is possible- for some people!

I was lucky, when DS was young, to have a job that let me work outside my parents working hours so they took over childcare when they came home, I worked till 10pm and weekends. Even with tax credits paying 70% there are no childcare facilities whatsoever in my village so work would have been impossible without my parents.

It's all very well for people to say "you just manage", you can only manage if you have the means to do so, and not everyone does.

To be fair I did set out to be a single parent. So I'm on a sticky wicket moaning that its hard sometimes! So I try not to and frankly would still rather be with DS than without him whatever the difficulties.

Generally when things are going well then anything is managable. I had a good job with partial childminder partial grandma albeit a child with additional needs.

Then I became very ill and all bets were off. I was unable to earn a decent wage for quite a while, my illness impacted on my child who was about to start school and the only sensible thing to do at that point was to give up work and concentrate on helping him. I didn't actually claim any benefits initially as I thought it would be a few months which then turned into a few years.

But I don;t look like the public's stereotype of a single parent on benefits and mostly people knew about my illness so I didn;t have to deal with anyone going at me!

I know that compared to many people I am well off.

I think that's why it has come as a shock that I can't afford to work.