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AIBU?

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Original poster

to wonder how to confront misogyny

112 replies

Thehoardernextdoor · 28/02/2015 01:17

Tonight DH,DBF (also male) and I went to our local for a drink, behind us and round the corner in the quiet bar were 4 men.
All of a sudden I was aware of one of these guys talking REALLY loudly about how Fred West had the right idea, how he wished he had a cellar/extension where he could do the same etc. Spouting horribly misogynistic stuff, his friends were laughing in an embarrassed way clearly not that comfortable with it, and I was so angry and upset, only woman in the bar, I knew I would have to say something, but I am terrible at confrontation. So we drank up, I told dh and dbf to get going and then I went over to these guys and said, "I don't know which one of you was saying all that disgusting stuff about Fred West but you obviously hate women and you've got a small dick." I turned and walked away,I just wanted to get out of there as soon as possible, but now I'm thinking I should have handled it better. How could I have humiliated him more in front of his mates? Should I have engaged him in a serious discussion? Basically, what would you have done or said?

OP posts:
Crocodopolis · 28/02/2015 12:09

mytartanscarf, I assure you that my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I wrote that post.

SaucyJack · 28/02/2015 12:18

I don't think it was a sharp retort tho. It was the equivalent of telling him not to fucking swear.

mytartanscarf · 28/02/2015 12:20

Croc - fair enough! Sorry! Flowers Grin

mytartanscarf · 28/02/2015 12:22

ilovesooty - I suppose because I just don't see it as having anything to do whatsoever with the bar staff or waiters (depending on the type of place.) I can't imagine how they'd hear, for one thing, if he was sat away from the bar.

Don't get me wrong, he sounds a complete dick but if I went somewhere and signs were up reminding us what we could and couldn't talk about - I don't think I'd want to drink there either!

Viviennemary · 28/02/2015 12:23

You could have complained to the bar staff. That vile talk is not on in public places. I don't think I would have confronted them because I never think it does much good. But complaining sometimes does.

finnbarrcar · 28/02/2015 12:25

Bringing the size of his genitals into it makes you just as bad IMO. If you're in a PUBLIC house you are going to hear opinions you disagree with. Granted this individual was spouting some pretty egregious crap, but engaging with him just to make a remark about his dick was dumb. I suspect you've told the tale on here in order to get a pat on the back, well not from me.

Crocodopolis · 28/02/2015 12:59

"I suspect you've told the tale on here in order to get a pat on the back, well not from me."

Yep.

Inkanta · 28/02/2015 13:00

'Inkanta, being a hypocrite pretty much always devalues the point you are trying to make, no matter how valid your point may be.'

If it's a point you are wanting to make. A sharp, caustic, and also witty retort in my opinion is a good option in that moment to shut him up. I mean suppose you want to stay in the pub. Why should you have to leave just because he's being an arse. Being polite and reasonable probably won't work.

ilovesooty · 28/02/2015 13:04

There shouldn't be any need for signs - just that people conduct themselves with basic decency in public places.
If I heard conversation like that or racist, disablist or homophobic conversation in a pub I wouldn't hesitate in reporting it to the management.
I'd expect them to be concerned about something that might impact on their footfall, profits and reputation.

hmc · 28/02/2015 13:53

I think this overhead conversation (deliberately said loudly for the op's benefit it would appear) does cross a boundary (talking about Fred West and him having the right idea - and wishing he could do the same? fgs! - that's massively inflammatory and imo a hate crime) If people on the tube can be prosecuted for racially provocatively remarks (a woman recently received a custodial sentence for this) - and quite rightly so, I think what this man was saying was easily equivalent. Its not just letting of steam to his mates and talking about, for example, "bloody women - all my bird does is nag, nag, etc" (which I also find offensive and sexist but would accept is not of the same magnitude as this instance)

As to what to do - well done on challenging it op, albeit I agree that the small dick reference was a bit of an own goal. Nevertheless you stood up to be counted, fair play.

Re what would have been best - I think I would have spoken to the bar manager (pointing out that these were particularly provocative remarks), and if the bar manager failed to take action I would have followed it up with a letter of complaint to the brewery. Better than potentially escalating things with some drunken oaf

ilovesooty · 28/02/2015 14:13

Well hmc I'm relieved to see that someone else thinks a complaint would be perfectly in order.

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/02/2015 14:42

hmc

"deliberately said loudly for the op's benefit it would appear"

Not sure where you get this from at all.

hmc · 28/02/2015 14:44

"All of a sudden I was aware of one of these guys talking REALLY loudly about how Fred West had the right idea"

Maybe right here!

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/02/2015 14:49

so they could have been talking loudly and she didn't notice it, or given the ebb and flow of conversation in pubs and bars it could have been a lull in the noise level.

alleypalley · 28/02/2015 15:04

*"asked for head office details to follow it up with a written complaint."

And then I would have demanded that all the bar staff and the manager be sacked for allowing that kind of speech to take place on the premises. Allowing that person to express his distasteful opinion in a public place means that they were not doing their jobs properly.*

I'm a pub manager. You'd honestly want to see me sacked, thereby losing my home so me and my two children would be homeless because some man was being dickhead? Well talk about female solidarity.

You have no idea what the manager was doing with regards to the situation, or indeed was even aware of it seeing as the OP chose to make a show of herself rather than speak to the management.

ilovesooty · 28/02/2015 15:10

alley the poster who posted your second quote wasn't being serious.
I made the first comment and never said I wanted anyone sacked. I made it clear that I would have been complaining at the time but unless I was satisfied that it was tackled robustly I'd certainly be informing the head office of a chain why I was a customer who wouldn't be returning.

IntrinsicFieldSubtractor · 28/02/2015 15:13

Surely expecting the bar owner to sort it out is just passing the buck, though? It's saying 'I'm upset by this man's views, but I don't want to confront him myself so I'm getting someone else to do it for me'. I probably wouldn't have bothered confronting him, but the OP felt strongly enough to do so, so I'd say good on her for doing it herself.

ilovesooty · 28/02/2015 15:15

I don't think it's passing the buck at all. It's the responsibility of the owner or manager to ensure that acceptable levels of behaviour are maintained.

hmc · 28/02/2015 15:15

Alleypalley - can I ask how (and if) you would have handled a complaint about this man if somebody had approached you? Genuine question - interested from your perspective as a bar manager.

Sorry Bony - we'll have to agree to differ. I think my interpretation of the man's motives in suddenly upping his volume when discussing the rapist and murderer of several young women - in the presence of one female drinker in the bar - is more plausible than yours. Clearly you think differently - we'll not agree on this one.

hmc · 28/02/2015 15:25

Intrinsic - the reason why it isn't passing the buck for the bar staff to approach the man rather than the person who overheard it is because as YouBetterWerk said: "People need to realise that in a public space they do not have carte blanche to say whatever they want" . The bar staff addressing this with the man is a good way of reinforcing this message, maybe?

alleypalley · 28/02/2015 15:26

alley the poster who posted your second quote wasn't being serious.. Fair enough, I didn't see that.

hmc, most likely (as obviously I don't know the full situation) I would have had a quiet word with the group and informed them that their topic of conversation was unacceptable and was offending other customers. I would have spoken to the group rather than the individual as often you can get the more sensible members to police the dick heads they are with. I would then, if possible, found the OP and her group somewhere else to sit. I would then have monitored the situation and if they continued with similar conversations I would have refused them further service.

I'm not sure what sort of 'robust tackling' ilovesooty would have wanted to see, but I certainly wouldn't have marched over Peggy Mitchell style yelling 'get out my pub'.

ilovesooty · 28/02/2015 15:34

I would call that robust tackling actually.

ilovesooty · 28/02/2015 15:35

Sorry, just to make it clear I meant your response would have been sufficiently robust to satisfy me.

hmc · 28/02/2015 15:35

Thanks for explaining that alleypalley - glad to see that something this offensive wouldn't be ignored.

Whilst I did have a laugh at your Peggy Mitchell analogy Grin, to be fair to IloveSooty am pretty sure she wasn't envisaging this

ShebaRabbit · 28/02/2015 15:53

I'd have told him Fred was nothing without Rose, the real brains of the operation.

Seriously, if it was really bad I'd have complained to the bar staff, I bet they all just laughed at you after you walked away, that type are too thick to feel social embarrassment.