To be leaving this country.

[xiaozhu]

I'm 28, I live in London and have a good job in the City, which I've been doing for about four years now.

I've recently decided to relocate to Dubai for a much better-paid (tax-free) position.

My reasons: Aged 28 and after four years of (very hard - 100 hour weeks etc.) work I'm still not even close to paying off my debts, and at least another four or five years away from scraping together an OK deposit to put on a flat within commuting distance of my office. By the time I do save enough, I will be wanting to start a family and don't particularly relish the idea of raising my first child in a one bedroom flat in Catford (which is about what I could afford).

Perhaps my expectations are too high? My parents (the baby boom generation) had me aged 23, had no student debt and already lived in a three bedroom semi in the countryside. They had OK jobs but not on as high salaries (or hours) as I am now. By the time my mum was 32 they had four kids, and they have just retired aged 55 and have two houses, their dogs, cars and final salary pension schemes. I can only dream of this if I stay here.

I feel quite bitter about it, and I know I'm in a much better position than many people my age! But some have implied that I am putting money before 'soul' and contributing to the UK's brain drain.

What do you think?

I am 25 and moved to Asia when I graduated, soon to move to Africa. I am in a much better position compared with friends who are living in big cities, sharing flats etc.

On my own, I could buy a 150k house with a manageable mortgage. With DP, we could get double that. I don't know many people my age who are able to do that.

Plenty of people move to the UK to earn money and then move home. We are just doing the same.

Good on you OP. I have had negative remarks to me moving away - people don't like to think that they are doing something you don't want to do. I have had very defensive comments asking me what is wrong with the UK and why it isn't good enough for me - nothing is wrong, it just isn't for me right now!

OP, I was a lawyer at a MC firm and the only way we could afford our 2 bed flat in London was by working abroad for 2 years. It was somewhere even less hospitable than Dubai and I really didn't enjoy it, but it's vastly improved our quality of life. Although nothing like the standard of living with my parents enjoyed.

A good friend was "pushed" into going to Dubai 4 years ago and loves it so much she's still out there. Why not go but negotiate a 6 month contract with option to extend for 2 years if you enjoy it?

at the people who don't believe in 100 hour weeks.

Shil: indeed!

muggle: You are right. And perhaps in ten years time I will be looking back and wondering why I felt so hard done by.

It would be good to buy a place that is big enough to bring up a child, and that is not too far away from where I work. Otherwise I face the choice of either having a child and giving up my job for something I can do elsewhere, or keeping my current job and putting off having a child until it's later than ideal. Such is a woman's lot though.

OK, so you're 1PQE in a MC firm. You'll be easily earning £65k, having earned £35 - £42k while on your TC. If you're earning lots less, they don't want you to stay (it's much easier to consistently under-reward the non-performers than it is to actively fire them).

If I was you, I'd go to Dubai, do the stint, then when you come back, think of going regional. Lots of corporate work is done out of Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham etc and there's far more focus on work/life balance (and houses aren't as extortionately expensive than they are in London)

B Ark indeed

Honestly?
If you feel like you are ready to move abroad, just go for it.
I'm pretty sure that if you had said Australia or NZ, people wouoldn't be as jugedmental.
But somehow Dubai isn't a 'good enough' place so it's ok to put you down.

In reality, you will either love or hate living abroad. And from then you will either stay a very short while or spend years out of the UK.

Just go for it (Saying that as the child whose parents did exactely that. It worked very well for them financially and quality of life wise. Me on the other side, ended up moving country to the UK.... Maybe not such a wise move lol)

YABU you could just move in the UK for a better life style - London is silly expensive

It's a tad dramatic to move to Dubi when you could just move to Birmingham

Of course yanbu to move to Dubai if you want to. I don't think it would be for me but I can't say I've never considered it. I'm also a lawyer in the city. I am now thinking of moving regional, partly for lifestyle reasons - for a better work life balance, to lose the commute and because I can't afford to buy anything good in London. So to an extent I get where you are coming from. I don't think London is the be all and end all. There is plenty of good work done outside London as emwithme says. I know someone who's recently made a move to Bristol doing corporate work with a very similar specialism to you. I have some in house experience in your field and it definitely isn't something that's completely London based. There's plenty of renewables work based up North, especially given that so much wind farm development is in Scotland. I get very tired of the view that all good lawyers hare to be tied to London and anyone who works outside of the square mile must be rubbish. It's simply not true.

Though I sympathise, I have to admit I am a bit that you say you can't save any money on a magic circle salary. Ok it's not as $$$$$ as the U.S. firms but if you are living in a shared flat with your husband and another flatmate, where is all your money going?!

A few years in Dubai would probably be a good move for you if it will help you get sorted out financially and I think it should be a fun experience for a few years.

xiaozhu

People who don't believe in 100 hour weeks often don't know the difference between a job and a career.

Anyway, maybe you should go and try it. Save and come back. The international experience might benefit you in the long run.

It's not that different to moving out of London, really. You're just moving further away. I am 36, and I only just bought a house with DH!!! I blame my years in London, and me not wanting to move out of London...

YANBU to feel disappointed that life isn't easy
YABU to think you have it any worse than anyone else
YANBU to want to move if you think it will help
YABU to think that this will solve all your problems

Life doesn't run the path you plan (or at least I've yet to meet anyone who has had the life they anticipated). You need to compromise and adapt your expectations. You sound very young (I know you say you're 28 but you sound like my stepdaughter used to when she was about 19) maybe Dubai would be great for you. A good friend of mine went, she hated it (greed, human rights, attitude to women etc) and came back with her kids, husband loved the conspicuous consption lifestyle and stayed for a while to save money for a deposit on a house and came back with more debt than he had when he left.
Wod not live there for a gold pig.

People who don't believe in 100 hour weeks often don't know the difference between a job and a career.

How fucking condescending.

I've worked 60 hour weeks for a great deal of my CAREER.

100 hours over 5 days = 20 hours per day.

your post is unbelievable really. you don't need to live in London - move somewhere cheaper if that's what you want. you don't need to work in law and do these hours - if your unhappy move. the only person who has got yourself into this situation is you. London is only a tiny part of the country - theres lots more places to live and work and you will have a better lifestyle there too.

I don't understand why ANYONE would want to live in London - I personally couldn't think of anywhere worse to live. unfortunately I need to go there to work occasionally and I just don't get it, its just a shithole with too many people.

Janine / Nancy66

I don't mean that those who do not work 100 hour weeks do not have a career. But to not even believe what is plain and simply fact in certain industries is beyond ridiculous. I have had people say that to me on a forum before (not Mumsnet), and after being attacked by random strangers about my claim, it was actually Admin who came in to save the day, and I was sent a PM saying, "Don't worry - I understand. I was in the same situation once, and some people don't know what it takes to have a career versus having a job."

In some industries, when people work on a particularly important deal/case, etc. they just stay in the office until it's done. It sort of comes and goes... so you may have a 100 hour week one week, and a 60 hour one the next. It's not every week like that (at least, I hope so).

I did leave the London rat race and am much happier now. So my days of 100-hour weeks are hopefully gone.

Snowbells

Totally agree. I had once worked a 60 hour week between Monday and Wednesday. We just didn't go home even to sleep until the deal was done. (Happily the client who insisted the pregnant lawyer work till 3am had the decency to look ashamed when she waddled into the officewith his fucking board minutes.)

Outside the city/big law firms/banks people have little idea how high the expectations are around hours. That is the main reason why I now try to talk people out of doing law!

pegyundercrackers

Have mercy on the OP. When you live in London, you do often live in a bubble where you think that anything outside of the M25 was No Man's Land.

No, seriously. When I was in my 20s, I actually said that to a guy once. That guy is now my DH, and he still teases me about the ridiculousness of my claim now.

I don't know why I thought that.

I think it's similar to people not wanting to live in suburbia. Anyone remembers Sex and the City, and Miranda's reaction to having to move to Brooklyn?

That's sort of how it was.

I would definitely work abroad. It's a great life experience.

Things have changed and it is an adjustment in a way. If you grow up seeing that certain qualifications/jobs correspond to a certain standard of living, eg. 3 bed house with garden, annual holiday etc, then you perceive that as a fixed reality. That is a wish but we know it's not a fact, look at the stark contrasts in standard of living from one generation to the next - same families, same locations - as societies go from boom to bust or enter armed conflict. Think about the generation sent to their death in the trenches of WW1, or the generation who were born at the right time to lose close relatives in both WW1 and 2. There were people who fought in the German army in WW1 and were murdered by the Nazis in WW2, you know what Alanis Morissette would call that.

I know that financial pressure on younger generations is partly due to the commitment that is already made to paying pensions for older generations which with hindsight, weren't affordable. Or something like that , I've been told the details but I'm no economist so don't quote me. You can't actually blame most individual recipients for that issue, and it has had some positive results for the younger generations too.

Yes, political parties do try to win the older voter, but they also have a bias in favour of the interests of homeowners and that is a group you'd be very happy to be in. So of course, you're going to like a bias that benefits you but not one that doesn't.

There are real difficulties, and if you want to fight to help, in whatever small way possible, those hit hardest by them I'm sure you can find a way to do that now or in the future. As you say though, you have many options, either going abroad or working elsewhere in the UK, as your qualification would allow you to earn a good salary in almost any region of the UK.

So I do think you personally shouldn't feel disappointed, though your feelings are you feelings, reasonable or not. Is it reasonable to go to Dubai if think it is right for you? I think so. It may not be admirable or necessary but it is a decision based on correct reasoning if you go to save up money, and do save up money.

I'm just laughing at the judgement. My mum is 64 - that's a boomer, right? Worked as a legal secretary. No pension. Owns her home but only because it was an ex-council house. It's far from leafy semis and PhD's some of us were raised... I think it's very unfair to judge your parents for their achievements. You'd do well to remember the 70s and 80s were far from idyllic for large, large swathes of the population and count the blessings and aspirations you've been born with, frankly.

And move out of London!

YANBU to go to Dubai - friends did and had a great time. One met her DH there.
YANBU to ask for others' experiences of the place or of making a decision like that.

YABU to whinge about having a brilliant job as a corporate lawyer working in the City with opportunities to travel. (You obviously got a degree and did further education and training to get the job so you are doing well at 28.)

You are in one of the most expensive cities in the World and you want to blame the previous generation because you can't have the sort of house that you want.

You resent your parents who, it seems, didn't have the same opportunities that you have but own a 3 bed semi. Doesn't make you a very appealing person I'm afraid.

I haven't seen anywhere where the op resents her parents...... She's just comparing her life with theirs, they are her benchmark after all.

Op go. Do it for the experience. Worry about housing and cost if living later. You are still pretty young so have a decent amount of time to do exciting things, and if you make any little mistakes along the way, plenty of time to correct them.

Ah! Maybe we should start building a B Ark of our own! = best post on the thread

Have you thought of trying somewhere else in this country rather than Dubai? Or does Dubai just sound really exotic (because the human rights would be an issue for me)

Ironically, my parents were born just before the baby boomer years (1946-64) and emigrated to the US as part of the brain drain for jobs in the sixties.

I was born after the baby boomer years and do not recognise the life you describe. But I don't live in London..

Not read whole thread. Doubt that you would want to live in Dubai long term but for two or three years - to pay off your debts and perhaps make some appreciable savings - wholly sensible.

Just go for it. If you hate it, you can always come home.

My sister went to work in Abu Dhabi for 2 years and 14 years later, she is still there and still loves it. Dubai is slightly different to Abu Dhabi (bit of a busier place). She went over as a single woman and has never had any issues or problems (being a woman or white) She just ensures that she respects the law over there, as you would in any country.

She will tell you her reasons for loving being in the UAE:

Great weather
Gorgeous apartment, with access to gym, pools and a private beach
Nice hotels and restaurants
She works less hours than in the UK
The hotels 'beach club memberships'. Great for socialising.
Fab shopping malls
Opportunity to meet and work with people from all over the world
Great social life
Ladies night - lots of great, cheap nights for socialising
Tax free salary

What she dislikes:

Transient friends (people moving all the time)
The weather in summer - heat can be unbearable
The driving - Arabs are seriously bad drivers
The price of imported food and toiletries
The 'ladies who lunch' clique - those who have nothing better to do than spend their husbands wages and bitch about everyone
The amount of men who have affairs when their families go back to their home country during the summer months
The cost of accommodation - prices have risen recently and people are finding they are having to top up their allowances
Some people's attitudes to their 'maids'. My sister will never employ a maid, but some of her friends do and treat them disgracefully.

For her, the likes out way the dislikes.

I would move to AD tomorrow if I had the opportunity.