To be leaving this country.

[xiaozhu]

I'm 28, I live in London and have a good job in the City, which I've been doing for about four years now.

I've recently decided to relocate to Dubai for a much better-paid (tax-free) position.

My reasons: Aged 28 and after four years of (very hard - 100 hour weeks etc.) work I'm still not even close to paying off my debts, and at least another four or five years away from scraping together an OK deposit to put on a flat within commuting distance of my office. By the time I do save enough, I will be wanting to start a family and don't particularly relish the idea of raising my first child in a one bedroom flat in Catford (which is about what I could afford).

Perhaps my expectations are too high? My parents (the baby boom generation) had me aged 23, had no student debt and already lived in a three bedroom semi in the countryside. They had OK jobs but not on as high salaries (or hours) as I am now. By the time my mum was 32 they had four kids, and they have just retired aged 55 and have two houses, their dogs, cars and final salary pension schemes. I can only dream of this if I stay here.

I feel quite bitter about it, and I know I'm in a much better position than many people my age! But some have implied that I am putting money before 'soul' and contributing to the UK's brain drain.

What do you think?

Sorry OP but I'm struggling to get my sad face on for the problems of non-tax paying corporate lawyers.

Yeah, there is a problem with the way low earning young people are treated in the UK. You aren't one of them.

If you're on Magic Circle salary then bullshit you can't afford a house. You can't afford a 4 bed with a garden in Chelsea, but of course you can afford the sort of starter home most of us buy first time around in London.

Fine to move to Dubai if that works for you, and give it any spin or justification you like, but don't try and make your private whining into a polemic against anyone else.

juneau All I can say is that jealousy is an ugly thing.

I suppose I should have been eaten up with jealousy that my parent's first house cost them £345 but funnily enough I wasn't.

I know Floisme how awful that only so called baby boomers are allowed to vote. It is outrageous

We have different opportunities to those that the baby boomers had, and I don't think our lives are comparable. So YABU to be disappointed, and YANBU to be going to Dubai- working abroad like that is one of the advantages our generation has. I think you're wrong to be talking about a brain drain though. I'd bet my bottom dollar that you'll spend a few years in Dubai earning top whack and working on deals you wouldn't have had access to in London, then come home with your skills and experience and the deposit on a house. Probably when you're looking at starting a family. That's what I, and lots of my friends, did, although not in Dubai.

I'm 29. Some things are worse for our generation, some are much better. All any of us can do is make the best of the situation we're in.

YANBU to consider moving out from London. Property prices are ridiculous and I wouldn't want to work that many hours and still not be able to pay off my debt.

Not sure why it has to be Dubai though - think there are other options tbh. But if you're happy with the idea go for it.

For the record: of course I vote, for all the good it does. I also pay tax (a lot).

And no, I can't afford to buy anything in London - not a four bed in Chelsea, or a studio in Bellingham. Penguin, you obviously think a lawyer's salary is comparable to a banker's, which is very very far from the truth. If I was fabulously wealthy or able to buy even a garden shed then I would not have such cause to moan.

What I'm saying is that if I can't afford to buy here, then how the hell is anyone else my age supposed to? I am very lucky to even be in a position where I can move to another country to make some money. A lot of people are stuck with it: living at home at the age of 35, no money, prospects, hope of starting a family. I am able to do something about it, for which I'm grateful.

I don't think that being in a much better position than a lot of people precludes me from speaking up on their behalf.

It's interesting to get different peoples' views though. There seems to be a huge gulf between those telling me to STFU and stop whining, and those saying go for, they've also felt shafted.

Just for comparison sake. We moved from Catford and bought a 3 bed new house in Hampshire for less than we were paying in rent in Catford. My husband still has his job in the city. His commute is actually only 15 minutes longer than the commute from Catford..
We still spend a lot of time in London. Train is only an hour direct to Waterloo(and you always get a seat!) and run every 30 minutes but our quality of life is so much better. We could never have got a house like this in London.
There are alternatives apart from leaving the country!

You can still be a corporate lawyer outside London in this country OP, earn a bloody good salary and buy your own place. Or you could go inhouse for a better work:life balance.

Maybe your view is little too skewed towards the money aspect?

silver Actually, its not jealousy. My DH and I have done better than our parents, but not because the govt has favoured our generation, just because we were in the right industry at the right time. However, I find it irritating that the present govt continues to vow to ring-fence OAP benefits while cutting and cutting elsewhere. I think its wrong to saddle young people with so much debt while favouring a generation that has, on the whole, done very well for itself and been lucky with the favourable economic circumstances during the prime of their lives.

wowfudge: Yes, I could go in-house, and it's something I would consider perhaps when I'm a bit more senior (more opportunities).

As for whether I'm money-obsessed? Perhaps it comes across that way, but I really don't think so. What I want is to live a little like my parents - modestly but reasonably comfortably - and to have some children and the opportunity to retire before I'm too decrepit! I see working hard in a decently-paid job as being a way to achieve those objectives, but I haven't really got very far. Perhaps I should indeed lower my expectations and stop being so 'greedy' .

Juneu: I completely agree. I can't fathom why retirees, regardless of how wealthy they are, are treated to a host of benefits such as free bus passes and preferential interest rates on savings when there is a whole generation of hard working people who can't even pay off their debts.

And to be fair, it affects the 'baby boomers' too: I know a whole lot of my parents' friends who are still supporting children in their 20s and 30s, who perhaps can't retire or enjoy their retirement because their children have no other choice.

The young people of the UK are hugely grateful for your sacrifices OP.

What better way is there to speak up for the financially disenfranchised and poorly housed young than by becoming a tax exile corporate lawyer in Dubai?

I mean what possible other contribution could someone with a law degree make?

And I'm hugely grateful for your sarcasm, Tondelay.

Retirees have no opportunity to work and refill the coffers. After a certain age no one will hire them, they are too old, ill, frail to do much. Younger people can work, have years to put money aside for their retirement... some do, some don't...

Ignoring the rhetoric about the 'rich retirees' what would you do for those who retire with very little in the bank, few assets and no support system?

That so many immediately look at the wealthy end of the retired spectrum and demand changes based on that is really quite scary, lacking in understanding, compassion...

To be fair it affects everyone. No matter how old you are now one day you will be old and will have to look at your accumulated wealth and wonder how you will survive. I hope your kids and grandkids like you more than you seem to like your parents/grandparents.

A lot of people are stuck with it: living at home at the age of 35, no money, prospects, hope of starting a family.

I have a deal of sympathy for those young people. You however don't appear to be one of them. I also greatly sympathise over student debt but it sounds as if you graduated before the massive hike in tuition fees.

Maybe it would be better to let those who have been affected speak for themselves?

OP I'm a bit younger than the baby boomer generation but older than you. In the past 20 years, I've seen a very big change which clearly shows up in the housing statistics but which is not often commented on: the growth of single-person occupancy. Young single professional people, like yourself, now expect to own homes and live in them alone. That's a lovely aspiration, of course, but it's a very recent one.

Your parents (you say) were both working when they bought their first house. I presume it was together, with two wages. I bought my first (tiny teraced house) when I was about your age, single and professional - and for the next few years I shared it with lodgers and /or temporary paying guests. So did many other single male and female professional people I knew. It was not always ideal but often worked well; in any case, there was no way in which we could have afforded house purchase otherwise. Over the years, we married or paired up with partners and/or progressed in our careers and at long last managed to afford homes genuinely on our own.

This sort of thing may be more difficult to arrange now; I don't know...

Ah! Maybe we should start building a B Ark of our own!

Hairdressers and telephone sanitisers

Nomama: Ideally it would be means-tested, but I can see that this would be difficult to put in practice.

As for whether I 'like' my parents - I adore them, but they no longer need to support me and were lucky enough to retire reasonably early. When the time comes, I hope to be able to support them, and would never in a million years abandon them and that is another reason why I'd like to make some money now.

flora: Actually my dad was still a phD student when they bought their house - mum was working. They could afford it because is was cheap then, but also because my dad had worked for one year before going to university and because he was technically classed as a 'mature student', he got a big student grant out of which he was able to save.

As it happens, I am married, but my husband earns not much and spends most of his income caring for his elderly and sick parents back in China. I'm the breadwinner, and I do feel the pressure. So I suppose our circumstances are a bit unique. We share our flat with a flatmate, as do most people in London these days.

... and corporate lawyers

I think the op is getting a hard time here. Ok so the post is a little bit goady but I think people are missing the point...

I also grew up thinking that a normal 3 bed semi type life, with decent career prospects, and being reasonably financially settled and having a good work-life balance would all be normal and attainable.

At 35, I'm dealing with a miserable commute, a career where I'm juggling work-life balance with the cost and guilt of childcare, and a huuuuuge mortgage. I'm not looking for sympathy at all but it's nowhere near as easy as I thought I'd have it.

And FWIW, we only have our house because we worked abroad in a country where we had a great tax break and could save a good deposit. And ironically we are now considering another move abroad - for a better quality of life.

I get you op.

xiaozhu

Buy a property outside of London. Perfectly achievable with with a corporate lawyer salary. I mean... magic circle law firm, 28 years old (I assume you have qualified?)... at associate level, your salary rises dramatically. Many earn 90k with 3 years PQE.

That should give you a decent mortgage to buy outside of London, and commute in within 60-90 minutes.

OP very sorry to hear that your husband's parents are old and unwell and it is good that your husband supports them. I think people might have been a bit more sympathetic if they had known your full circumstances from the start ...

If your mum had you at 23 and your 28, does that means shes retiring at 51? Or are you saying she's retiring in 4 years time?

At 51 shes just a baby boomer if born in 64 - that's the last year.

Yes, it's much harder for the younger generation. Yes, we need a big house building programme.

If you want a house and children you can
get a corporate lawyer job out of London or buy a house in Hertfordshire where I
live and commute in.

I'm only 28 minutes from Euston. Very easy commute.

It's interesting that whilst many people winge about the money that some baby boomers have made from houses, they are quite happy to then inherit it from them...