Why do people think the NHS is so special?

[SnowBells]

There are always people around who proclaim the NHS is some sort of holy grail. It can't be touched, and don't even think about reforming it. The government may be offering free healthcare through the NHS, but nothing is really free, is it?!

My gripe with the NHS is that just like most institutions funded by the government, it becomes a big bureaucratic mess, where people are more concerned about ticking boxes than the actual patients. Most other developed countries have some sort of free healthcare that can actually be more effective than the NHS. I have lived in countries where, for example, health care insurances are mandatory, so that everyone has one (and a lot of times, employers contribute the bulk or the government subsidises it). Hospitals may be subsidised by the government, but GPs run their practice like a business, and rely on clients to earn their living (this means, they actually have to provide a bit of "client service" that's almost elusive here in Britain). You can make appointments with specialists directly - no need to waste time at the GP's practice when really, you needed to see, say, a gynaecologist.

Why is it that some hail is as the holy grail?

TheEdge
Who does it better?

I'm not denying there are huge problems with NHS MH, but know of nowhere that does it right for the NHS to copy from.

I have no idea who does it better.

I know it used to be better here though. When I met my husband 10 years ago he received much better care but it is getting worse and worse.

I don't think the NHS is above reproach. Am I grateful I don't have to pay? sure I am, but there are very obviously real problems which are getting worse.

snowbells
Could you name me the posh people's A&E in Harley street?

TheEdge
MH was different. I'm not certain it was better. There was an awful lot of locked doors and chemical cosh in the past.

"Back home I would have had a private room with a bed in it for DH to stay in over night with me, helping with DS."

As my friend had in the UK, on the NHS.

The trust has had to make cuts since then and that unit has closed.

That's not a private insurance vs public argument, it's a "how much do we want to spend on healthcare" argument. See above about spending comparisons.

I'm a bit of a socialist, so would gladly pay a bit more tax. Alternatively, advocate home births, so hospitals will have less crowded maternity wards..

The administration of the NHS makes me frothy with rage however it has some of the best professors and senior consultants in the world as far as I'm concerned.

Saying that getting access to them is another thing altogether.

Postnatal care is utterly shocking and almost killed me/eventually saved me at the same time. Well that and the pregnancy itself :)

In principle the NHS is incredible, in reality not so much these days. I feel a little unfair saying I suppose as it can be such a mixed bag though. What I will say is that when we needed A & E resus services I was blown away by the outstanding staff, their professionalism and compassion. On the other hand in another hospital it did overlook something life threatening - until I saw a furious clinical director.

It needs more funding. Obviously.

C'mon Cameron throw some (a lot of) money at it. That what you do in dysfunctional families and we're all one big family innit, together right?! ;)

since when is there a private A & E?!

OP was saying how fab private is .....

TalkinPeace

I was responding to another poster and not talking about A&E.

From my experience from another country where they have the insurance-based system, you got the same treatment at A&E whether you are privately insured or have the statutory insurance (held by around 90% of the population).

I have been private and I have been NHS. I can't say the medical care has been any better. I have seen misdiagnoses in both systems in fact both tend to use the same doctors.

Private tends to be more comfortable and for non-life threatening stuff you are seen much quicker.

I would never in a million gazillion years use a private A&E.

GPs to me are the first point of administration to the main hospitals as far as I'm concerned and are best placed to demand follow ups.

Mine also is kind and lovely and doesn't judge my complete health anxiety. It helps.

Bash the NHS as much as you like but you don't see it performing unnecessary procedures/investigations for profit.

Oh and one last thing, the consultants you see privately are mostly all NHS based in some hospital around the UK. That's the bit that drives me the nuttiest. It's the same health care professionals!

Rant over.

The NHS is amazing but not beyond criticism. Unfortunately if money is cut or misused it means services will be cut. There is always room for improvement. As it is free at the point of access it means everyone, regardless of social status, is entitled to care. For what it's worth, all the nurses and consultants i have worked with (within a, to my mind, very underfunded and neglected department) are passionate and caring about what they do

GP's are under massive pressure. Yes they may get paid well but it is a tough job and I wouldn't like to do it. You get little thanks and sometimes people try to sue you and write really shitty reviews. I can always get an appointment on the day so I feel very lucky. I've also had experience of emergency services and can say they have definitely saved lives as a result. My sister was on life support with complications due to downs syndrome yet they still did everything. Had daily meetings with us..examined everything. I felt very informed and left with no doubt that they could have done no more.. I imagine

And TalkinPeace - give me a break. I was not saying "how fab private is". This thread was more to do about the SYSTEM.

NHS is a system more than anything else. I'm all FOR a health care for everyone. But how that is done can be debated.

And yes, if you can afford to pay here, you can bypass queues, and get treatment that is not available on the NHS.

I have a condition. If I wanted to live a pain-free life, I would need a certain operation. NHS does not cover it because it is not "necessary" although certainly life-changing. Even my UK private medical insurance (that is not as comprehensive as some of the ones elsewhere) will not cover it.

Someone I know had the same condition (actually a LOT less acute than mine). He's in the UK, for starters, and is lucky to have a wealthy mum who paid for his operation that cost her in the tens of thousands of pounds. He can go back to live a normal life without constantly worrying.

If I had that operation, it would be more expensive than his, because my condition is worse than what he had.

There you have it - if you have the money, you can get better medical care. Even in the UK.

Sorry. Stupid phone.
I imagine it must be very hard for them to go home and switch off after some of the things they deal with on a daily basis.

But in the UK if you don't have money you still get good care

in the USA if you don't have a good job (because you have kidney failure so cannot work)
you are condemned to a slow painful death in your 40s

TalkinPeace I was never talking about the US. In other developed countries, if you don't have money, the government essentially pays for your insurance.

The US is just a completely different topic. But unfortunately, the only country the UK seems to be comparing themselves to.

but the advisers the Government is hiring to sort the NHS all come from the USA
so we are screwed

TalkinPeace

That is indeed crap. I blame it on the UK's "special relationship" with the US, when the better answer is closer to home.

Blaming it on the motivations for trying to restructure the NHS would be nearer the mark.

Because I don't think "better patient care for all" is one of them.

Osborne actually described privatising the NHS as "an opportunity for private enterprise" - a euphemism for profit.

I am a huge fan of the NHS. It saved my life when I had cancer and cost me not one penny.

No, it cannot be all things to all people at all times but it's great.

For those who want more / better / faster: there's a saying in French "il y a mieux, mais cela coute plus cher" (there's better, but it costs more).

In fact, it all sounds like something we've seen heard before...

- and announcing it as giving the US with the best healthcare in the world.

If you have a private system you will be charged for every unnecessary blood test, procedure, you name it as happened to my aunt when her daughter was in hospital as a baby. Eventually it got so distressing ( clearly putting a child through unnecessary painful medical procedures) she decided to take her home. My cousin is now thriving but not thanks to her experience in the US.

The motivation for profit does not work as effectively as our current system which is to give people the most effective treatment ( yes there are constraints the budget is not unlimited) and it is as much research demonstrates it is a much more efficient system.