Why do people think the NHS is so special?

[SnowBells]

There are always people around who proclaim the NHS is some sort of holy grail. It can't be touched, and don't even think about reforming it. The government may be offering free healthcare through the NHS, but nothing is really free, is it?!

My gripe with the NHS is that just like most institutions funded by the government, it becomes a big bureaucratic mess, where people are more concerned about ticking boxes than the actual patients. Most other developed countries have some sort of free healthcare that can actually be more effective than the NHS. I have lived in countries where, for example, health care insurances are mandatory, so that everyone has one (and a lot of times, employers contribute the bulk or the government subsidises it). Hospitals may be subsidised by the government, but GPs run their practice like a business, and rely on clients to earn their living (this means, they actually have to provide a bit of "client service" that's almost elusive here in Britain). You can make appointments with specialists directly - no need to waste time at the GP's practice when really, you needed to see, say, a gynaecologist.

Why is it that some hail is as the holy grail?

And the knowledge I'll never have to go all Walter White on you

From the perspective of someone living in a country with a social insurance healthcare system (France)...

Right now, frankly, I'm happy not to rely on the NHS, partly because of the GP shortage and partly because of the excellent mental health care services that we have (my husband has a chronic, but now well controlled, mental health condition).

This doesn't mean I think the NHS is a bad way of doing things, it's just that - compared with the better European systems - it's simply chronically underfunded. The proportion of GDP spent on healthcare in the UK is significantly lower than in France and that makes a big difference.

I find it hard to believe that the French system is more efficient though - there is an entire bureaucracy devoted to reimbursements. Every month I get statements from my government insurance scheme AND my top-up mutual insurer, listing all my payments and reimbursements. That sort of bureaucracy doesn't come cheap!

No the dentist is not free here but before I left Ireland I needed some dental treatment that was over â?¬800 and I couldn't afford it.

I care deeply about it, for all its flaws and like most people on here had very good and very bad experiences - but all times I was grateful it was there for me and my family. For now, its all we have. I am sure that in 20 or 30 years time it will only be around for the really poor people - by then we will all have to pay for private medical insurance and just cross your fingers you don't get really ill, which will eat away into the insurance you have paid, then your on your own! ( US is a good example) I can see this happening. I saw an add for 'vitality' last night on channel 4 - I think it was a bit like a BUPA. Was going on about the advantages of having this insurance ( air mile points for one) - I said to DH , this is the start of the NHS being privatised, bring it in gradually so it becomes the norm. Get the young to sign up ( cheaper for them no doubt) then start on the older folk - not so cheap but still better than having to go to the old NHS.. it scares me how it will pan out.

It's worth mentioning that in Ireland there's a health service (the HSE) and you pay towards it in your taxes, however as already mentioned you have to pay for gp visits, A&E visits, ambulances, full cost of any drugs and €75 a night in hospital etc etc.

If your child has asthma or eczema you will not get free inhalers nor skin treatments for them (so you will pay full price for any specialised bath oils, creams both lubricating and steriod)

Sure if you can afford it you can have health insurances (of varying level depending on the amount you pay) but you still pay for all the above when a out patient (and then claim back to whatever level your health insurance pays back)

The NHS failed us when I was sure that DS had silent reflux (had all the classic symptoms and had to be held upright in my arms all night = 0 sleep with pnd is not a good mix). Didn't actually ever receive a referral letter. Luckily we were going for a trip back to my nstive Scandinavia for Christmas, paid £30 to see a (private) paediatrician the next day, DS was promptly diagnosed and put on medication with an invite to come back if stronger medication was needed. I expect we would have suffered for months under the NHS and under the lable "colic".. Is there a system here under which you can get one off appointments (one off payments) with specialists without having to commit to paying health insurance?

The proportion of GDP spent on healthcare in the UK is significantly lower than in France and that makes a big difference.

of course it does and France is trying to address that because its crippling the country's budget.

Yes Toys you can pay privately to see a consultant, you don;t ned insurance you can just pay yourself. Still need a GP to refer you though I don;t think consultants just take walk-ins, though IME most GP's chappily refer to whomever you like if you are paying and its not coming out of their budget (within reason I assume as have only asked for pretty sensible referrals!)

What BIWI said.

My mother is on the fourth of six chemotherapy cycles for ovarian cancer, having recently had staggeringly extensive abdominal surgery (removing her ovaries, uterus, chunk of bowel and a couple of other things). We have worried about many things - mainly involving her dying, really - but never, at any point, about cost.

Oh, and her GP is pretty fantastic too.

So if i read that right, if you earn under €50,000 then you effectively pay NI and if you lose your job then the government pays it for you. A bit like here then apart from the threshold. Although if you go into the highest tax band here then you pay more tax overall and receive the same care as everyone else.

The80sweregreat

Most larger employers offer that kind of health insurance these days. It's part of your benefits package at your employer. My employer also offers access to a private GP and physiotherapist on-site (for free, as in - no insurance money involved). I know of other employers who have a private dentist.

I haven't read the threads, I will do so later!
Watch this, m.youtube.com/watch?v=_c86Gwsb5LY

A lot of employers dont pay a living wage so in the UK the likelihood of them paying health insurance isnt very high is it?

I have just returned from a third world country with no free healthcare system.
We are very lucky!!!
We should be grateful for what we have,others have so much less.

Right, beavington. Really, it's the same as having the NHS. Yet, everything is based on insurances, and the health service is paid for the treatment they provide rather than the number of patients they have in their books.

The only difference is that the top 10% can effectively opt-out of the system and pay more for a slightly more exclusive service (though in recent years, people say that the statutory one offers much more value for money anyway). My dad, for example, is now retired, but still has the sort of income that allows him to go private. When he went to hospital, it was basically like a stay in a hotel and he got a large en-suite private room, etc. ...which works for everyone as nurses can attest he would not be great to share a room with!!!

Others on the statutory insurance may have had to share with one more person.

chickydoo As already mentioned, this is not about comparing to third world countries. This is about comparing to other developed nations.

Because it is "free".
Although it is not free.
I truly believe that there should be an insurance-based system in the UK, as there is in other countries. That would, at least, make people understand the costs involved.

I don't want to live in a country where the rich get better medical care than the poor. An insurance-based system inevitably works like that, surely? It's not just about the quality of the food and having a single room. If the NHS became just a safety net for the poor, the more expensive drugs would not be given to them.

Private health insurance is not new by any means. It's been around for a long time as an employee perk, but never for large numbers of lower paid workers. Long may that remain the case.

Private hospitals don't usually have intensive care facilities so if anything goes wrong while you're in surgery or recovering there you are transferred to - guess where! - the nearest NHS hospital.

Oh yes, and another thing. One of the major failings of the US system, and for all I know of other insurance-based systems too, is that there is no disincentive for clinicians to refer their patients for expensive tests which are not really justified. This is not a trivial matter. There can be problems arising from having unnecessary invasive tests. Somebody way upthread mentioned this but it bears repeating.

The NHS is crap for mental health services in my area.

I could go on and on about how they have let my family down.

The NHS has great parts and crappy parts.

The NHS saved my husband's life, but it doesn't mean it isn't desperately failing in certain areas.

Actually forgot my nightmareish stay at NHS pre and postnatal wards. In pre-natal I was alone in the room for ages tied up to monitors and needing a wee, but did not dare rip monitors out so I could go to the loo, just in case it would cause a massive alarm and crash carts rushing into the room. I was sat on a birthing ball butt naked for passers by to see, nobody offered a gown and I did not think I should ask, just in case it's not the done thing (it's the done thing were I come from). Finally someone came through and told me I should have pressed the call button, which nobody had told me about or shown me. DH had bought me sandwiches before dissappearing back to do urgent things at home (he is self employed and we were told I would not give birth for ages yet). After I had eaten them someone came in to take my dinner order. Again, nobody had informed me that there would be food. Eventually it was determined that DS was a breech so I would need an EMC, quite urgently (meconium in waters). I asked someone to call DH and they said they would. Just as I was being carted to the theatre, DH appeared, but said that nobody had called him.

Post natal ward had 3 other mothers and babies on it and it was right next to the nurses' station, so even when l the babies and mothers were quiet at night (did not happen that often), the phones would be ringing and the nurses would be speaking at full volume. Any time that anyone needed assistance, a nurse would first wash her hands, dry them on a paper towel and put the paper towel in a bin with the loudest fucking metal lid ever. Same routine after she was done with whatever she was doing. Multiple times at night. Then the 6 am breakfast. Other people's countless visitors. I was a complete wreck and already firmly in the claws of pnd. The nurses asked me to stay longer than the five days, but I could not handle any more, even though going home was also a nightmare.

Back home I would have had a private room with a bed in it for DH to stay in over night with me, helping with DS.

theedge
The NHS is crap for mental health services in my area
Name the medical system that does Mental Health well ?

Duchess
I truly believe that there should be an insurance-based system in the UK, as there is in other countries. That would, at least, make people understand the costs involved.
Yup, the Kidney transplant cost $75,000
The right drugs would have cost $23,000 per year
so the insurance funded the $10,000 a year ones

leaving the person too ill to ever work again till they die

Back home= Scandinavia

mental health are utterly appalling and subject to a postcode lottery. For mental health in particular the UK is a disgrace.

It really is.

They got rid of my dh's CPN because they didn't have enough to go around and that now means that I am expected to notice an upcoming crisis. His CPN did wonders and noticed things way before I ever could and managed to get him the right help. Now he doesn't have one.

He doesn't even have a regular psychiatrist any more and is now expected to see a GP if he needs his meds changed. The GP can't deal with his meds so he then has to wait for a referral unless it gets to crisis stage and we get the crisis team in. Before, he was under regular professional care to stop bad crises happening but now he isn't seen until he has reached rock bottom and instead of keeping him well, it's more of a case of getting professional help when he has reached rock bottom. MH services should be trying to prevent it in the first place, but lack of staff and services has left us in this shit.

When I was ill I had to wait for over 6 months for CBT.

My local psychiatric hospital is having to send patients miles away from family because they don't have enough beds or staff.

It's not good enough.

AllMimsyWereTheBorogoves
I don't want to live in a country where the rich get better medical care than the poor.

The NHS does not stop that from happening. I can assure you that those who can afford it in the UK go private, too. There's always Harley Street!