Why do people think the NHS is so special?

[SnowBells]

There are always people around who proclaim the NHS is some sort of holy grail. It can't be touched, and don't even think about reforming it. The government may be offering free healthcare through the NHS, but nothing is really free, is it?!

My gripe with the NHS is that just like most institutions funded by the government, it becomes a big bureaucratic mess, where people are more concerned about ticking boxes than the actual patients. Most other developed countries have some sort of free healthcare that can actually be more effective than the NHS. I have lived in countries where, for example, health care insurances are mandatory, so that everyone has one (and a lot of times, employers contribute the bulk or the government subsidises it). Hospitals may be subsidised by the government, but GPs run their practice like a business, and rely on clients to earn their living (this means, they actually have to provide a bit of "client service" that's almost elusive here in Britain). You can make appointments with specialists directly - no need to waste time at the GP's practice when really, you needed to see, say, a gynaecologist.

Why is it that some hail is as the holy grail?

Free at the point of use.

Does not refuse tratment for pre existing conditions (like most private healthcare).

Took care of my poor dad when he was suffering from motor neurone disease. Fuck knows how much all that must have cost. Certainly more than the amount of tax he'd paid in his lifetime.

Took care of me during 2 home births.

Anyone who does not appreciate how lucky we are to have 'no questions asked' health care for emergency, acute and chronic conditions needs the services of a good NHS therapist!

BIWI

How do you know this? Can you prove this statement
Google is your friend. Type in "NHS box ticking" and you will get a lot of results. In fact Google's predictive text suggests the above term. It's a target-heavy organisation that no longer really looks at patients, but at stats.

More effective in what way? And how 'free'?
Please read the post of someonestolemynick. It's obviously free elsewhere.

What happens if you can't afford this insurance - which will be on top of whatever tax you're paying. Who is organising the insurance - oh, yes, that will be insurance companies. Who are making a profit out of it.
In Germany, for example (and other EU countries, too), health insurance is compulsory. There are two types of insurances: Statutory health insurance and Private health insurance. The former is non-profit and designed for employees earning below €50k, as well as those on benefits. Rates are low. For employees, rates are paid with joint employer-employee contributions. For those on benefits, municipalities pay the fees. Nearly 90% of the population are covered under this scheme. The rest have private health insurance - which may give you nicer rooms in hospital, access to select few private hospitals (e.g. my mum gave birth in a private hospital that did not accept those with a statutory health insurance, but neither does the Portland accept NHS, right?). From experience, what you got outside of hospital was fairly similar. I was covered private, friends had the statutory one, and we went to the same doctors, specialists, etc.

Where is your proof that 'client service' is elusive?
Experience. Am I not able to draw conclusion from experience?

NancyRaygun
but....you paid for the insurance?
Insurance is compulsory. Everyone has to have one. Not doing so would be illegal. My family paid for it. But as in my post above, people on benefits would get their insurance paid for by the municipalities. So everyone has insurance.

NancyRaygun
Also, in a similar manner - you pay for the NHS via NI and taxes.

My parents live in Ireland and my dad recently fell and broke his ankle in a really awkward way. He had to stay in hospital for 10 days and now has to pay â?¬750. Which he doesn't have. I am very very grateful for the NHS.

I don't know. I have no big gripes personally about my treatment at any time Or that of my children. Things can be slow at times, there seems to be irritating delays and minor mistakes and older hospitals often seem to be a bit the worse for wear but apart from that I am happy with it. I know it's inefficient and I know some people have had horrendous treatment and that needs to be highlighted and changed if possible. But by and large I think the answer to your question is that most people have been reasonably happy with their treatment and they feel safe to take it for granted.

Regarding health insurance, when my dad had an emergency heart op he was kept in hospital for longer than usual afterwards because his blood pressure kept dipping and he kept fainting. I was really scared for him and spent hours googling and visiting message boards for his condition. I will never forget coming across a man in the US whose father was in a similar position to mine, and after having been in a HDU for a week was having to contemplate removing him because his cover was running out. How the hell do you deal with that? I knew that whatever happened to my dad, they would take care of him as long as was needed.

I Ireland it's between 50 and 60 euro to see the doctor. Average prescription is 20 euro. 150 euro to call out ambulance or fire brigade. You can imagine to cost for more serious health issues. Mum was quoted 12,000 for a new hip! I think you should be grateful for the NHS

I didn't realise that Ireland doesn't have NHS!! All I can say is I had pre term twins in NICU for many weeks and they saved their lives. 2 babies in incubators on drips and ventilators, 2 paediatricians in attendance, how much would that have cost???? More than I'll ever earn, that's for sure. I love NHS!!!!!

yy to finding all this "customer service" and "customer" language in general to be antithetical to healthcare

For me the good "customer service" provided by other countries is that I can actually see a GP when I'm unwell. In the UK, over the past 25 years, I mostly haven't been able to. (Consistently offered an appointment two weeks in the future, which is to far away to be of any use.)

My friends who live in the US have been surprised by the wasteful practices of the healthcare professionals there. As one example, my friend had a piece of medical equipment that needed a minor repair to its case - not even the equipment itself - the consultant just threw it away and said he would replace it with a new one, at a cost of $000s.

My friend was really shocked but the consultant's attitude was 'The insurance company is paying so why not?'

Cunning pregnancy and birth are free in Ireland.

Theoretician, I'm sorry to hear that but it's never been my experience, or my parents', anywhere we've lived. There does seem to be a lot of variation with this kind of thing. Don't know why.

Fay I'm relieved to hear that, but what about everyone else? Do you have insurance instead? Why did I think it would be like the UK? Dohhhh!!!

I've never struggled to see my GP within the week I called (always the same one too). I realise GP appointments can be very hard to get in other areas of the country (I know others wait 2-3 weeks for appointments) and I have won a lottery. My surgery has 10 GPs who are all very busy but the biggest delay I have had is about a week. I get great "customer service" then I guess but I wouldn't use the term "customer" since it's not good just because I'm paying, it's good because that's just the basic level of service.

Finding the insurance info useful but still confusing. Me and DP would consider emigrating for work reasons in the far away future and I would really like to understand how private insurance works with pre-existing conditions in the EU nations or Canada (we'd love to move there). Also prescriptions, paying up front and claiming back etc and all sorts of things...it's the one thing that puts me off moving. We know we're OK for everything here.

France is considered to have one of the best predominantly publicly funded healthcare systems (according to WHO) so I assume thats the kind of system you're comparing it to?

You can pretty much insist on seeing a consultant for anything you want.

However it isn't free at the point of use - you get about 75% of cost refunded after paying it upfront. Some people pay into insurance to cover the difference some just swallow it.

But the costs of an all singing all dancing system where the GP is not a gate keeper to the Consultant system is significantly higher costs to the tax payer - France spends over 11% of GDP on health care, its an accepted problem there, some commentators believe it will be lucky to survive in its current format for more than about 5 years.

If you think people in Britain don't believe the NHS could be improved then you really have been living under a rock.

70% of my GP appointments are book on the day ones. Its a bigger struggle trying to book a routine appointment in advance!

Cunning People om benefits get free medical care and people who can afford insurance can get insurance but there are a lot of people who can't afford it and just don't go to the gp when they really need to. Ditto the dentist. Ditto the optician. Ditto mental health services. There was a story recently that appeared on my fb about a little girl undergoing cancer treatment being denied a medical card.
When I go home my sister always asks me to bring calpol and nurofen for kids as its so much cheaper here.

The US Medical system provided a kidney transplant to a family member
but not the right anti-rejection drugs
so that person will never, ever be well enough to work and pay taxes
before they die young

give me the NHS - with all its faults - any day

There should definitely be improvements but the NHS must remain free on point of use.
I completely agree that people who waste appointments by not turning up should be hit with hefty fines. Same goes for idiots who ring for ambulances because they have broke a nail or turn up at A&E to get their hair extensions out. They are ridiculous.

Because I would be dead without it; because I could have my cancer treatment without worrying if I or my family could afford it. No one had to choose between paying bills or me getting well, which is a very really decision that some people in the US have to make - the result of not having my treatment is that I would have died over 20 years ago. So I think it's bloody fantastic even with the problems it has - which are largely now due to this government fragmenting it and privatising by stealth. I don't want to live in a country where people have to stop taking their medications because they can't afford them any more; or are eking out their antidepressants because they can't afford them. So that is why I think the NHS is good.

Fay poor wee girl, I'm shocked!

I think the NHS is great, its fantastic that it doesn't matter who you are or what you're worth you should get the same standard of care. |I would defend it to the death!

However I don't see how it can continue to function in its current state, with people living longer and ever more treatable conditions we are going to have to start making some hard choices at some point. Add to that its a political football I really worry about its future.

Incidentally what I don't understand is why we are taxed on private medical insurance - surely that means that we are reducing the burden on the NHS. My DH had huge amounts of treatment on it last year which therefore saving the NHS money?

FayKorgasm

But the dentist isn't "free" here, right?

It was free for me where I lived before, and there was no NHS there.

head desk

But you were paying insurance!!!
Do you really think that if the UK moved to a compulsory insurance based system that national insurance would lessen? It wouldn't.

With working families using food banks many cannot afford insurance. We're on benefits and as a family have multiple chronic conditions and disabilities. We couldn't afford insurance even before we were forced into benefits by our kids' disabilities.

Same treatment regardless of wealth