to think UKIP can no longer deny being racist

[Sallyingforth]

We keep hearing about all these UKIP members and supporters in the news for their racist speech and articles.
Farage says he doesn't want racists in his party, but there is the photo of him drinking and grinning with one of the Chelsea mob who were filmed in Paris.
Apparently there will be more on the TV tonight.
It's time that all sensible people spoke out against these hateful characters.

By the way - I am not a UKIP supporter - but I don't want to be branded as "typical XXX" by saying who I do intend to vote for.

Ghosty - agree with your point about greedy employers. I am not an immigrant -blamer - but I do want to see a system that is fairer

but UKIP really are a one trick party - they are anti immigration - they really stand for much more

they have aligned themselves with some vile right wing EU parties

they don't really have any redeeming features I can see

I have yet to have anyone tell me they are voting UKIP because of it's policy on Education

My point here is that by dismissing everyone who has any issues with immigration as racist, the mainstream parties have alienated large swathes of poor and poorly educated people and let UKIP in

I agree but I think they have done worse than that - they have actually gone along with a lot of the lies and made immigration into some sort of political national crisis

they should have engaged, challenged the myths, moved on - now it's a massive issue fuelled by misinformation and paranoia

Oh ffs ghosty you should know its muslamic reh goons not Islamic. Chuh.

Hedgehogs, excuse my ignorance but I didn't know about this. Who are SD? Can you give us a link to this appalling notion about Jews renouncing their faith?

SD = Sverigedemocraterna, the one's UKip have formed an alliance with and choose to sit with at the EU parliament.

SD party chairman says in interview that people cannot be a member of the Swedish nation at the same time as being part of the Jewish nation

It's not surprising really considering if you trace SD's history you find it began with an organisation which was in alliance with the nazi party in Germany in 1941. These are the people Farage said he 'looks forward to working with'.

Yes, ghosty, but that's come about because now the parties are having to respond to UKIP, whereas even a couple of years ago no-one would discuss immigration because it was "racist". Even the Tories have become far more right wing in the run up to this election.

they have actually gone along with a lot of the lies and made immigration into some sort of political national crisis

I agree with what you say there ghosty - but nonetheless they have left the poor who bear the brunt of overcrowding, competition for jobs and housing and school places with nothing and no obvious way out. If they did something concrete about that then immigration wouldn't be a problem or a scapegoat.

Yes, there was ad for staff at the school in TES a couple of weeks ago. They have a long list of vacancies (surprise, surprise!) and stated in their advert that they are a diverse school with 67 first languages spoken

But it doesn't state how many of those children who have a first language other than English also speak English fluently. Just because English is a 2nd language that doesn't mean that the child can't possibly be fluent in it. My child's previous school was a very diverse school with dozens and dozens of different languages spoken but most of those children also spoke English very well. We moved area and my child started at a new school which was about 98% white British and everyone had English as their fist language but the school was not as good as the previous school (despite the results of the new school being excellent, as that was partly due to high levels of outside tutoring).

Of course they can deny they are racist and they shall continue to do so

I am getting a little tired of the patronising ukip bashing. The reason Nigel Farage is getting so much support is because he is engaging with people it is time we listened to what peoples fears are rather than the patronising screams of people calling them ignorant and foolish

If only EM engaged with his supporters as much he may actually gain more support

Exactly ghosty, they are creating the problem. Hmmm, I wonder if this sort of thing has ever happened before?

Chertsey you said we do have a bigger immigration "problem" than other countries do you have any supporting evidence for that? Just curious because I think that there is a perception that we do when in reality we have far fewer immigrants than the other western European countries and nothing like the "problem" that countries like Lebanon have at the moment.

We have a bigger "problem" because that's the main issue in this election. IMO this is turning out to be pretty much a one issue campaign, which is why UKIP are doing so well. Whether the voters are correct in feeling this way is irrelevant, it is the issue the politicians most need to address if they're going to win.

Yes, I agree with Freudian. I can't abide Nigel Farage - I met him once years ago when his son was playing in a cricket match against our lowly comp. He was absolutely vile about the poor people he's now so popular with, but he's very good at what he does. He has engaged people who are/were completely disillusioned with the political process.

Thanks, Hedgehogs. That is chilling, isn't it? And he's going after Sami people and God knows who else as well.

Thanks, Hedgehogs. That is chilling, isn't it? And he's going after Sami people and God knows who else as well.

They recently introduced a bill into parliament which, has it been passed, would have been the first step towards a register of citizens with a non-native heritage. It's terrifying.

so what is the UKP policy on disabled people??
come on supporters, fill me in.

I disagree Chertsey. I think that the big issues are the economy, the NHS, education and all the usual subjects. A sizeable minority care about immigration as the perceived cause of all their ills. But it isn't really the problem. Maybe leaving the EU would stop some of the problems but who knows what the economic effect would be. Would there be more jobs or not?
If UKIP managed to avoid putting racists, misogynists and homophobes into public office then they'd have a bit more credibility and there could be a debate. Blanket statements that we have a problem aren't helpful.

so what is the UKP policy on disabled people??

Their 2010 manifesto included building congregated communities for people with learning disabilities. They don't think that people with learning disabilities should reside in an inclusive society.

One former ukip candidate suggested that all foetuses known to have a severe disability such as Down's syndrome should be forced aborted as disabled people cost the state too much money. That candidate was sacked from the party eventually but not before farage and other members tried to defend him.

We do have an immigration problem, whether that's an actual problem or a perceived problem is the thing the main parties have failed to deal with, leaving the door open for Farage and his weird cronies

I think many are missing the point they see a man who the feel is listening to them he is engaging with them the finer points of their manifesto they are willing to overlook as they feel he will make a change and he is fighting for the ordinary man and woman

What other party is engaging with the public so much

I loath Nigel Farage and all he stands for but I feel sadly other parties could learn from him

How do you deal with a perceived problem? How do you stop the DM etc printing sto

so what is the UKP policy on disabled people??

I know the answer. I can quote direct from UKip themselves:

'The welfare state has also created a brazen culture of benefit “scrounging”, whereby individuals who are perfectly capable of working refuse to do so, and go on benefits instead. They frequently justify this by feigning illness.'

UKip Welfare Policy Document 2010

Sorry - phone being silly.

How do you deal with a perceived problem? How do you stop the DM and other papers using stories selectively to highlight the "problem"?

If the evidence is there and people don't want to believe it then how do you deal with it? How do you get it through to people?

That's exactly how I feel Freudian. He's a vile man, his policies are largely vile and the party members even more so, on the whole. But, by being prepared to discuss unpalatable issues which the mainstream parties pretended weren't there for too long (because they don't affect well educated, nicely MC people?) he's achieved a following.

Even most of his "supporters" don't like the man, but they feel he's the only one who's prepared to do "something" about what they're facing in their daily lives. I don't for a minute think immigration is the real cause of those problems, but they do and in election year, that's what counts. That's democracy for you!

Amazing that he's achieved such popularity, given that his life is just as far removed from theirs as any of the other party leaders.

Freudian yes, NF has cracked the 'man of the people' thing that the big parties have lost. Smoke and mirrors mostly but it's a well played con.