to think they should charge the Syria girls

[adsy]

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

We are all accountable for our own actions. When I was 16 nobody in the world could have brainwashed me into supporting such atrocities.

"The op can comfort herself that these terrible, evil people will soon be raped and enslaved and being forced to have babies." except we don't know that's the case. From what we read these women are there of their own free will. The girls in fact travelled to turkey of their own free will. It's very easy to sit here and say that they will be going through x and y so as to muster some sympathy for them, because to do that is better than the alternative, which is the reality that there are fifteen year olds whose thinking is so twisted that they have romanticised the idea of going to live in a state which prides itself on beheading innocent children.

I know which children are innocent, and it sure as hell isn't these ones.

As hard as it is to imagine there really are people out there who are that evil and twisted, even at fifteen.

Why is everyone making out these girls are Vulnerable victims? they are at an age where they know right from wrong. They have chosen to join a group of people that think its ok to burn people alive, cut peoples heads off. They are not victims, they are terrorists.

I also find the familys statements odd “We are not angry with you and you have not done anything wrong."

Sure running off to kill people and support burning people alive is all normal and not wrong at all, i mean what is wrong with these people?

No MrsDeVere. These girls, whatever their age, have already made up their minds and chosen their fate.
We need to deter others from following, and ensure other parents watch their own children more closely. Not encourage others from going by thinking they can ask to be fetched home to a warm welcome is it all goes wrong.

mrsDeVere That is a lesser evil than having them coming back here as suicide bombers.

I would be intetested to know what religion all the posters on this thread are.I am wondering whether there might be a pattern...

what evidence do you have that they aren't? contact with known jihadists on social media, use of someone else's passport to escape the country to go to join a jihadi state.

These girls are being recruited by ... oh, let's see, other women. all innocent victims of course,

Child soldiers are generally abducted from their families at a young age - as young as five or six years old. there is no comparison between those and someone who knowingly and deliberately flies off to marry a jihadist after having watched the beheading of innocent people.

Whatever they would do here, the evidence so far is that jihadis don't make very good European citizens and have a habit of shooting, hostage taking and blowing things up. I think limiting the number of them does make sense. Since they have their own country now, they might as well live in it.

So Mrs Devere, what is your stance on child criminals generally?They are almost invariably had a very dysfunctional upbringing.You could argue that it isn't really their fault....

As a mother of a boy the same age as these girls who also happens to be Muslim, I cannot imagine what they are thinking of. Isis have committed sickening atrocities. How can they ignore that? While I do still consider them as children and I dearly hope they will return safely, they are not in the same category as child soldiers who are forced into war. They have chosen this course and gone to a lot of effort to get there.
I don't believe for a second that these families had no idea. My dh is muslim and has always made an effort to discuss religion with the children as he knows there are a lot of people who would like to influence and brainwash youngsters. Moreover Isis has been in the news a lot recently and it is naturally a subject to discuss at the dinner table. I can't believe the parents had no idea their girls may have some sympathy. I also know traditional Muslim families are much stricter with their children, even boys, so I can't believe the girls were able to go from their homes to Gatwick without their parents wondering where they were.

Very well said MrsDeVere.
850pro we have already discussed the families reactions earlier in the thread.
JudgeRinder can you clarify what you are insinuating by wondering what people's religions are? I'm happy to declare that I'm an atheist with a C of E background.

CofE

Atheist. But living in the middle east.

MrsDeVere Where is your evidence that these girls have been "groomed"? You may suppose that they have but you don't actually know that, do you?

I'm pretty near certain that their lives in Syria won't turn out to be quite as "fulfilling" as they might be hoping. But there is absolutely nothing to suggest other than that they have gone there of their own free will and are fully aware of the barbaric nature of the Islamic State towards "apostates" and "infidels".

If you can find an example of a schoolgirl or boy from this country voluntarily heading off to join the LRA, I'll happily condemn him/her too. This is f*ck all to do with having "different standards" for different races or religions.

Incidentally, if this were about 3 white 15-year-old schoolboys heading off to join the KKK, would you be similarly sympathetic towards them?

How have they even left the country? I presumed if you are under 16 you would need parents consent to fly, as you would to leave home or get married. I think its mindblowing any child could just hop on a plane and take off somewhere very silly little girls.

and I cannot believe at all that their parents had no idea they were quite possibly the ones whove taught them radicalism in the first place

We don't need to provide evidence that anyone ISN'T a criminal, or isn't evil, or anyhting else. Thats not how it works, you need to prove that they are.

All children are innocent. There is a very good reason we treat children differently than adults. Well, those of us who aren't paranoid frothers do.

I wouldn't blame the parents for indoctrinating. I suspect there are a limited number of parents who have experience of running an Islamic State, in Britain. But, I do think the parents of any kids likely to come into contact with propaganda should go and get help in dealing with it, now.

countess ,no, not all children are innocent. Criminal responsibility begins at 10.

Prevention is so much better than cure.

I agree SallyingForth but we can do both. I think telling someone of 16 that they are taking an irrevocable step is unlikely to deter them or many other teenagers.

I read something on Saturday about two 17 year old girls, one of whom was killed on a level crossing in and one who managed to run in the nick of time.

Apparently they thought the last train had gone and decided that this would be a good place for a goodbye chat because they were both going home in opposite directions .

I first read it thinking: 'How fucking stupid were you?' But they were 17 and they thought it made sense. Now one silly girl is dead and the other one will always remember seeing her friend's body.

I don't think I'd have done that, much less run away to join a bunch of murderers, but as a teenager I did some pretty daft things and I don't believe anybody who says they didn't either.

And the idea that children should be abandoned pour encourager les autres is vile. Like being left with IS is akin to being on the Naughty Step.

I also find the idea that you would cut all sympathies with your child odd. I don't doubt that some posters are sincere in that view, but I find it alien.

I'd condemn their actions but I'd still have a vestige of love. I'd probably spend the rest of my life blaming myself for the waste of their life and the lives of the people they'd harmed.

I can't imagine much worse for a parent - and before anyone says, yes, I am aware of people who think that being a suicide bomber is a noble fate for a child. Or at least I am aware of news stories telling me that this is what the majority of the families of suicide bombers thinker. Along with 72 virgins etc...

I don't think anybody on this thread is advocating letting the girls roam free with no questions asked and no consequences if they return to Britain. They may have committed crimes and they definitely hold some dangerous ideas which need knocking out of them.

Their parents may also have some questions to answer about the values they have instilled which may have become warped.

There is no suggestion that this will not happen. I want the children brought home and I want hard questions to be asked.

I forgot to mention that the people used in the radio broadcasts were young people of both sexes who'd been in the LRA to show people that it is possible to break free and make a new life. It would be hard, but not as hard as what they were going through.

That was more powerful than having a well-meaning charity worker prattling on.

"We don't need to provide evidence that anyone ISN'T a criminal, or isn't evil, or anyhting else. Thats not how it works, you need to prove that they are.

All children are innocent. There is a very good reason we treat children differently than adults. Well, those of us who aren't paranoid frothers do."

There is no evidence in the public domain that these girls left for Syria anything other than voluntarily. The evidence is that they lied to their parents and headed off to Turkey to join the terrorist organisation kn own as Islamic State. They may have been "groomed", they may not. There is no publically available evidence to suggest they were and simply asserting that this happened does not make it so.

One of these girls is already 16 (Kadiza Sultana).

David Norris was also 16 when he murdered Stephen Lawrence. By the logic of some of you on this thread, he was too young to be held responsible for his crime as he was "just a child" and children are "innocent".

The op can comfort herself that these terrible, evil people will soon be raped and enslaved and being forced to have babies
Where the hell did I say I wanted to see that happen to them? Don't go putting words in my mouth that were never there.
I said that IF they were found to have gone out to join ISIS I think they should be punished.
DO NOT accuse me of wanting them raped mrsdevere