to think they should charge the Syria girls

[adsy]

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

In any case, they understand what their marriage will be like. Apparently it's beautiful to see one of the brothers with 3 or 4 wives.
It's already well known what lies ahead for them and yet they still choose it. Some girls and women get off on being a stepford wife.

David Norris was also 16 when he murdered Stephen Lawrence. By the logic of some of you on this thread, he was too young to be held responsible for his crime as he was "just a child" and children are "innocent".

Who said that? The age of criminal responsibility is 10, so he wasn't too young.

He murdered someone. He was eventually convicted of that under joint enterprise.

His age at the time of the crime will be taken into account when considering release, as it should, because he was a minor.

I imagine that will mean that he will serve about 15 years. That will anger many people, not least the Lawrence family, but seeing as you brought up logic, it will be entirely logical.

I also don't think he should have been named prior to conviction. Naming them was grandstanding and could have jeopardised the entire prosecution.

It used to be the Unification Church (aka the Moonies) and other cults that were accused of brainwashing young people and persuading them to leave their homes and devastated parents.

I see a lot of similarities in this case. I can believe that the parents knew nothing, much less indoctrinated their own children.

Can't remember the pp's name who suggested that using punishment and prison sentences would be silly as it would deter people and their families from wanting them back...

The whole point of having those punishments is to deter anyone from wanting to go in the first place. If they still choose to go, then they are accepting, ahead of time, the consequences should they return.

Besides, I don't think many families or 'victims' of brainwashing would think it better to stay somewhere being raped and beaten, committing various atrocities just because going home would be a prison sentence. I would much, MUCH rather my dd in prison in this country, than out there suffering at the hands of ISIS.

Tanith I think it's fair to say we think alike.

I hope these girls are brought home safely. I feel that they should be offered psychological support in a suitably secure setting. However I don't think they should be in jail or a pychatric hospital. There needs to be careful thought by people who know what they are doing rather than frothing mumsnetters. Children need rehabilation rather than punishment.

If a child has committed an atrocity then they should be punished. Not all children or even young adults have committed crimes in Syria or Iraq.

I feel that these girls deserve love, but possibly some tough love. By the way I am c of e. I also believe that the girls are young enough to be rehabilitated.

splodgeses Maybe you're Bear Grylls, but how easy would you find it to escape a remote camp with no language, food, water, money or any idea where you were going?

And what would you do if one of your brainwashers told you that Britain had passed a new law to execute IS sympathisers? Not by lethal injection, but by beheading or burning?

I've no idea whether that's true, but I'm 50 and if I wanted to control and terrify a 16 year old girl with no access to knowledge, that's what I'd do. And I'm nice.

I also find the idea that you would cut all sympathies with your child odd. I don't doubt that some posters are sincere in that view, but I find it alien.

No limited I didn't say that and I'm sure it wouldn't happen.
What I said was that the families should be made to understand that there would be no government support for those who have gone to join terrorists.
If this sort of thing becomes common then it will have to be the case, because we do not have the resources to chase around hostile countries looking for people who may or may not want to come home, however much the parents (and some others) may wish it.

but we don't actually know what these girls are being told, do we? We don't actually know that they are being raped and beaten, there is no evidence to suggest that they are, only that they are being married into a life of servitude, which in itself wouldn't be desirable for any daughter of mine, but the idea of multiple gang rapes and beatings hasn't come from anywhere but the supposition of those who want to ensure that we know they are groomed.

Thus far none of the girls (over 60 so far from the UK) who have gone to Syria have returned, or tried to return. None have spoken of a horrific life over there, the scottish one whose name escapes me atm as am on phone in fact appears to be leading quite a life over there and helping to recruit other women over.

Perhaps someone needs to infiltrate isis and marry one of the soldiers to get an inside view.... then and only then would we be able to get a fuller picture of what really happens there once these girls arrive.

I find it hard to believe that the families knew nothing, but I'm sure that they are now being closely monitored by the authorities, so if it transpires that they did know anything it will become apparent soon enough.

So 3 young girls don't deserve government support, Sallyingf. Are you serious...?

Wannabe, they're teenagers and bright ones at that. Easy to deceive families. Who didn't at that age - I know I did, though obviously not in such a drastic way.

I feel incredibly sorry for their families and for the girls. Also for their classmates and teachers. It's such a horrid situation. Imagine if it was your 15/ 16 year old?! Surely the families and the girls deserve compassion and every bit of help we can offer.

I know you didn't say that, SallyingForth, but a couple of people have. No doubt they are sincere. I couldn't do it though. That wouldn't mean that I thought my child was an angel or that I was an apologist for terrorism.

There has to be government support when it comes to locating British minors who are runaways. I would expect all civilised governments to sign up to that and to reciprocate.

It's not that common and I'm sorry, this is Britain, our economy is apparently booming. We have the resources to do this. If you are a minor you get returned to your parents or a suitable guardian. That's the deal. We don't let children choose. And we certainly don't let other people choose for them.

wannabe yes one did return. She was 26, not a child, but left the UK with her 17 month old son and joined Isis groups in Syria. It all went wrong for her. She escaped and by sheer luck, managed to get back to the UK where she now is ? Not sure what's happened to her but she was arrested a few days ago upon her return . Google her, Tareema Shakil.

If 'government support' means angering and enraging Isis further then no, I don't believe it should be offered. They aren't going to just sit back and take it are they? There will be repercussions

well, if you were the parent of a friend of one of them you'd become a lot more vijilant, wouldn't you? monitoring what they were doing on social media, etc?

Of course you have to feel for the families if they knew nothing, because reality is that there will be a lot of people who will assume that they did know something. We have to hope that they didn't. But no, I can't feel sympathy for someone who knowingly befriends terrorists on social media and who knowingly goes to another country to marry a jihadi fighter. If they come back full of regret then that's another matter. But if they're brought back by authorities then that's something entirely different. Either way I wouldn't think they could ever be trusted. I sure as hell wouldn't want my son to bring one home.

I sure as hell wouldn't want my son to bring one home.

Neither would I, but that's the thing.

You'd be within your rights to ban her from your house. But then you run the risk of losing him, possibly into the clutches of dangerous people.

You might take that stand. I wouldn't. Possibly these parents knew something of their daughters' flirtations with radicalism and had no idea what to do.

Alternatively, maybe they're just mad murderers and sent the girls off with their blessings. Inshallah.

wannabe there's also quite a lot of evidence from captives who have escaped. I think the Guardian is running weekly reports on it.
Isis confiscate homes and businesses ,capture non muslims and enslave them, for the benefit of the jihadis and their families.
Someone compared these jihadi brides to the wives of nazi officers who lorded it over the prisoners and lived a priveleged life.
Yes, their marriages will be restrictive and their lives will be controlled but they are benefitting in other ways.

they are children FFS

I feel very sad for their families

Actually there's also a long list of people I wouldn't want my child to bring home.

Barbarous terrorists would be at the top but with my rational hat rather than tin foil one on, I'd be more scared of the more common ones such as someone who'll play with their heart and stamp all over it, wife beaters, drug/alcohol and gambling addicts, thieves, cocklodgers and major criminals both in the sawn-off shot-gun or white collar variety.

I don't get how anyone can't feel sympathy for what's basically just 3 misguided kids. They've gone out full of passion and heart to do what they think is the right thing. I don't in any way applaud it, but they're quite something those girls. Bright, opinionated young women sadly tied to a terrifying cause. The only way to stop this happening is to find out why they went and help them back. They're the ones who can stop more young girls going. Demonise them and we risk that don't we?

exactly fml. so not exactly the life of brutal rape and torture which some on here are suggesting. That is reserved for non muslims.

Tareena Shakil ended up back in the UK because she was deported from Turkey. She is on bail atm apparently, but surely there would need to be a lot of investigation into where she has been? How do we know for instance that she has genuinely escaped and not just come back to the UK to recruit more jihadi brides? Anyone who can deceive enough to have left the country without the knowledge of their family is capable of anything, and it should take a lot before she is integrated back into society. If she is genuine and wants to prevent others from going down the same path then I hope that happens. but it would need to be done with extreme caution.

but they're quite something those girls
do you also think the 7/7 bombers and 9/11 bombers were bright young gthings just misguided?
the 9/11 bombers were bright enough to learn how to fly a plane. if it wasn't for just one or two wrong decisions they'd have probably been BA captains living in the home counties, eh?

Were the 9/11 bombers 15? No. Why do you insist on using adults proven to be terrorists/killers in comparison to children who have not be shown to have done anything but make very stupid decisions?

One can only conclude you know your arguments are without merit and are trying a haze of hyperbole and ranting to try and sound like you have a point.

Oh come on they're 15/ 16 year old school girls. You can't compare them with the 7/7 or 9/11 bombers, that's just nuts. We need to work out why 3 A-grade students felt the need to do this. We can't stop it happening unless we do that. Demonising them isn't the way, nor is alienating their families. They need help to get their girls back.

Oh right. so all the terrorists in the world were born as fully grown men? they were never teenagers getting more and more into that world?
These young women have already broken the law if they have joined ISIS. If they have not gone to Syria then their sharing of videos of beheadings shows them to be morally reprehensible and dangerous.
maybe we should be glad they are pulling this stunt now and can be very carefully watched if they return

well, not sure you can equate bright with watching beheadings on youtube and being inspired by that to run off and marry a murderer. [hmmm]

exactly fml. so not exactly the life of brutal rape and torture which some on here are suggesting. That is reserved for non muslims.

You really believe that? You really aren't aware that Muslims who these brutes think don't quite make the grade arent also subjected to horror.

It is anyone, just anyone, who gets in their way.