to think they should charge the Syria girls

[adsy]

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

I think it is wrong for Scotland Yard to go chasing after these girls. We should just let them go and forget about them, rather than make a song and dance about it which only increases ISIS's impact on the UK. 'We don't want you to go, but if you go we don't want you back'

Yes, that is harsh. I accept that it sounds cruel.

Long ago, Britain said we would never pay ransoms to release kidnap victims from terrorists. Every government since has confirmed this. It sounds cruel for the victim but it has had two effects: it discourages terrorists from kidnapping, and it discourages UK citizens from going to places where they might be kidnapped.

In the same way we should let it be known that anyone abroad to assist terrorists will be sadly but firmly written off and receive no official support. It will have similar effects to the kidnap situation: it will let the terrorists know that we are not going to waste resources (and risk security staff) trying to find the misguided travellers, and it will tell families that they must take even more care for their children not to be radicalised because if they go to support terrorists they really will be permanently lost.

yep agree with that Sallyingforth. I don't think we should want them back.

In fact they should be marked up on the imigration system so they can never come back into the UK.

I feel sorry for everyone involved.
The parents/family members I saw on last nights news were devastated and had no idea what their daughter was planning. My heart hurts for them, how in hell can they process something like this?
My DD was a highly intelligent complete arse aged 13-15, I'm so glad that she was not influenced by the people that these girls were. I can honestly say there but for the grace... etc. What we went through with her was terrible, but nothing compared to this.
Stupid, naive, foolish, know it all, indestructible, gullible teens! Their life as they know it is over regardless of what happens next.
And other lives too.
I wish I had an answer.

I agree. I think banning would be jihadis, male or female, from returning (a thing proposed by Cameron) makes far more sense than inventing imaginary crimes.

Unfortunately there is a legal problem with just banning re-entry of a British citizen, and I personally think that it might be a step too far to get that power.
(Imagine for instance if UKIP got into government and said that anyone visiting family in say Pakistan could not come back home).

But we could certainly say that anyone visiting certain proscribed areas would be facing an automatic and lengthy jail sentence. The offence would be simply visiting those areas, no need to prove what they did there. And there could be exemptions for staff of recognised charities if necessary.

I think it contradicts the EU right to citizenship. But, I suspect what you've got there is a legal argument. It's not a case like Abu Hamza, who was here and wouldn't leave. This time the jihadis are already out of the country. This time it's the EU which has the problem, not Britain.

MNHQ and Ghosty I would say travelling on someone else's passport is a crime.

They have British Passports which are some of the most highly held in regard and so makes it easy to travel on them.

You cant ban them from returning do you mean arrest them at the airport? but you would need proof that they did something or you will have Human rights lawyers racking up million pound cases.

I was referring to the European Court, not the EU.

"I agree. I think banning would be jihadis, male or female, from returning (a thing proposed by Cameron) makes far more sense than inventing imaginary crimes."

You would even apply that rule to children who have not committed attocities. Marrying a murderous jihadi is not the same as being a murderous jihadi.

I think that its clear that the OP do not have teenage children. I cannot imagine my teenage son going off to Syria. I could see how he might be indocrinated into a cult and brain washed. I can empathise how hard it must be to have any control over a teenage daughter even though my background is totally different from the families. Teens of all nationalities do stupid things like dileberately getting pregnant or trying drugs or getting involved with the wrong people.

These families need help and compassion rather than condemation. Making a child feel like an outcast (assuming they have done nothing more than marrying a jihadi) will make them feel they have no option but to stay with ISIS.

How would you feel if your precious baby got mixed up in Heaven's gate

Believe it or not, but many of Heaven's gate's members were well educated people with college degrees. They were not stupid people.

I'd be very upset if my DC got involved with heavens gate, but unlike ISIS heavens gate aren't murderous terrorists.

assuming they have done nothing more than marrying a jihadi
assuming that's all they've done??"!!! married a murderer!! Married a person who rapes and tortures children!! that's all they've done?!! Jesus where do you draw the line at not feeling sorry for them?

Since the ISIS ideology of savagery is antithetical to the one of democracy and equality, yes. I believe that the choice to go to Syria and join ISIS is equivalent to renouncing one's British citizenship, yes.

Isn't there film of such young men and women burning their passports once they get abroad?

By day they go to a British school and then return home to a completely different country and culture.

Half the people living in Bethnal Green are Muslim. It's very possible that most of their friends at school are also Muslim. And while all those friends may come from perfectly moderate families (as indeed the girls themselves apparently did) it does mean that there is likely to be few challenges to religious orthodoxy.

These families need help and compassion rather than condemation. Making a child feel like an outcast (assuming they have done nothing more than marrying a jihadi) will make them feel they have no option but to stay with ISIS.

YY I heard a radio documentary on rehabilitating child soldiers with The Lord's Resistance Army.

The boys were soldiers and the girls were sex and domestic slaves in the service of Christian fundamentalists. I don't think the LRA has much to do with most Christians' idea of their faith at all, just like I guess IS's view of Islam is not shared by many Muslims. It's a convenient peg.

Unlike these girls, they had mostly been abducted. But because of the terrible things that these children had done, and in some cases had come to believe after brainwashing, no one wanted them back. In fact, they would take bloody revenge on them. So they were trapped.

So some pansy-arsed liberals hit on the idea of making radio broadcasts appealing for them to turn themselves in to the care of a safe charity, in the hope that a young person might hear it and find the courage to break free.

No one from the charity was suggesting that it would be easy, or even possible in all cases to transform these children who had done monstrous things, into law-abiding citizens. They talked about long periods of de-programming in custody to keep the local population safe from them and them safe from the local population.

But at least they had a well-thought-out plan and were trying.

I don't regard it as a waste of money for the police to try to find British minors who've run away from home and are heading into danger. That's what I want from them.

Some posters talked about Rochdale and were pooh-poohed. I think it's the same. The police and other authorities didn't bother to help those girls, partly because they weren't sympathetic characters and once they were in the clutches of their abusers they couldn't get away.

The plan to ban all returnees from dodgy areas with an exception for workers for respected charities won't work.

If I was a jihadi I'd just join the Red Cross or Medecins San Frontieres. Many people have practical skills that charities want as well as a cultural, religious and language background.

I also don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that these three girls think they can be of some assistance as nurses. I think it's more likely they've gone out as part of twisted romantic and political dream, but when you're 16 that might encompass mopping the fevered brow of a handsome wounded jihadi.

The the film

It is quite frightening how easily young teens can be influenced. After viewing the film on Youtube, I am sure that you feel a little be less judgmental of young girls who have gone out to Syria.

If they return who can say for sure they knew what they were signing up for, whether any remorse/regret is genuine, if they still harbour hatred for you and me and would happily see us all dead, or if they are 'sleepers' sent back to wreak havoc?

Yes, that's what worries me too. It's true that nobody yet knows what they're doing in Syria - though it seems they've already committed a crime over passport issues - but I honestly feel that the security of the majority should stand above concern for people who've made choices like this. Of course they've got rights, but so have the rest of us - and one of the most important is to be safe

I also saw the clip of the parents, and while I fully accept it could be genuine I couldn't help thinking they wouldn't be the first to be "distraught" one minute and treacherous the next. The insistence that they're "only children / don't understand / just silly girls" and all the rest is understandable - possibly even correct up to a point - but just as it's unsafe to assume what they're doing now, it's equally dangerous to dismiss it all as some teenage fantasy

As I've said, for me the protection of the vast majority should come first

I'm sorry limitedperiod you make a good case but I have to disagree with you.
Prevention is so much better than cure.
One has to be sorry for these unfortunate girls, but at the same time we have to look at the greatest good for the greatest number of people. In this case it will be done by applying the maximum deterrence to anyone thinking of going out to support the terrorists.
If they and their families are made to understand that going there is a one-way irrevocable step, and the only way back is into prison, that will make it much less attractive to those who are tempted. And hopefully make parents look more closely at what their children are doing.

(crossed with Puzzled)

If it's "judgemental" to have no sympathy with 15-year-olds who voluntarily deceive their families and set off to support an organisation that is known to behead, crucify and bury children alive then I'm glad I'm judgemental.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fin.reuters.com%2Farticle%2F2015%2F02%2F04%2Fmideast-crisis-children-idINKBN0L828E20150204&ei=6yzrVIrRLO-U7QaewYHwDA&usg=AFQjCNHIn0P1oAY0qD5VavsGN-ODJjcFzQ&cad=rja

These girls are not stupid; they are straight-A pupils by all accounts.
They have been following known terrorists on twitter, they have seen the videos and the photographs of the beheadings, the burnings and the crucifixions and yet they are happy to throw in their lot with such people.

I sympathise with their families who are no doubt beside themselves with worry. But I have no sympathy with the girls at all. I wonder how much they "sympathise" with the Yazidi girls (and boys) who are being held by ISIS as sex slaves - (as well as Christians, Shia and indeed some Sunni Muslims)?