to think they should charge the Syria girls

[adsy]

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

Adsy I agree that is the crux of the matter. I am not convinced that they didn't share the same traits as Isis in terms of sadism etc.

I don't think it is that easy to brain wash an average teenager to support violence rape and murder. I just don't.

Therefore entering Syria not entering Syria it doesn't matter to me. I don't think they can just come back and take their exams and pretend it was just a phase.

I'm horrified that by the actions of IS. I really couldn't give a stuff to what happens to their adherents. You reap what you sow.

All this hand wringing and excusing. Good riddance to anybody who supports and partakes in such depravity. Now concentrate on the real victims, those that are IS's target, for whom there seems to be precious little concern.

Mistress myself and many others are with you and feel horror over what the victims are going through and revulsion that there can be any excuse to support IS

I believe these kids are being told that the beheadings etc are western propaganda and that their life in IS will be great and that they will be important people once IS take over the world etc. These are girls who despite being academically bright are probably naive as they're not allowed to mix freely in western society and their parents probably haven't prepared them for emotional maturity preferring to focus on grades until a man from a suitable family asks to marry one of them.

I feel sorry for them but would not trust them if they came back.

Evening all. We can see that this thread has, understandably, elicited strong feelings on every side of the debate. While we don't like to stifle discussion, we would like to remind everyone that at the heart of this story are three very frightened sets of parents and three girls who haven't yet broken the law and are still legally children. Whatever their motives, we don't think it's on to wish harm upon them, particularly since so little is known at this stage. We've deleted some posts that we felt were beyond the pale, and we'd ask everyone to consider the above before posting again. We'd hate to have to delete the thread and squash the debate entirely. Thanks.

Institute for Strategic Dialogue: "Becoming Mulan? Female Western Migrants to ISIS"

I don't know anything about the reputation of the organisation who compiled this report, but I found it interesting reading. It includes a section on the threat posed by 'dormant' returnees.

Capricorn76 Just go on to some online forums and you'll come across plenty of people of all ages -students and adults, cheerleading for the Caliphate, applauding and advocating for even more extreme brutality.

FOSIS, the Federation of Islamic Students at British Universities regularly invite all sorts of extremists. One of their previous guests was Sheikh Mohamed al-Arifi, who has issued a fatwa permitting the rape of slaves.

What will it take for some of you to realise that some British muslims, women and men are following this extremist ideology wholly of their own accord and whole heartedly believe in this shit and it has NOTHING to do with living repressed lives or anything else.

Well said, Iona.

I posted very early on that I'm one of the ones who see them as they are - children, doing stupid, stupid things, and I hope they will be found and returned before they reach Syria.

I've been a bit at the family of an older young woman (20) who had already gone there, and who may have been the one who persuaded the three girls to go too. They have been complaining at the "failure" of officials who let them leave for Turkey. But the thing is, teenagers travel alone all the time. Why are officials the ones to blame for not catching them, and the families themselves aren't?

MistressMia the prevalence of faith schools means that in some places the non-faith schools are almost all-Muslim children - ie all the ones who couldn't get into a faith school, and who don't have the money to go private. These children grow up simply not encountering many non-Muslims until they leave school at 18. While the majority will come from moderate, non-extremist families (like anyone else), I worry that they are sitting ducks for grooming into extremism, as it only takes a few determined extremists who can tell a good tale, and a total lack of opportunity for anyone to challenge it, for their extremist ideas to take hold.

At 15, hell at 10 or even age 5 you are aware enough to know that hacking off heads and burning people alive is wrong under any counts. You don't have to be in contact with many / any non-muslims to be able to come to this conclusion.

What we should be asking is, is why are these kids and adults becoming extremists. What is it about Islam that produces so many extremists. Why are the other faiths and those of no faith not producing this plethora of deviants ?

archery do you think the problem lies in muslim schools, then?
FWIW I didn't encounter anyone other than Catholics at my schools. taught by pretty nuns and regular visits by priests who were frankly religious nutters. Still didn't make me want to join the IRA

pretty nuns??!! was going to say pretty extreme but thought what would an extreme nun behave like. conjured up images of a nun with a kalashniov so decided to scrap the extreme ( but obviously left the pretty!)

MistressMia probably because the middle east and subcontinent has been carved up and fucked up for the last few decades. Colonialism then oil. The west having proxy wars and arming dictators for expediency. Recently, the absolute clusterfuck of Iraq. The Palestine issue. I could go on and on.
Drone strikes. The sheer hypocrisy in terms of how we value western vs non Western lives. The exporting of Wahabism by our dear friends the Saudis. Etc and so on.

SlaggyIsland Really ?

All that accounts for the acceptability of raping Yazidis, beheading Christians, blowing up Shias and every other atrocity meted out to those who had nothing to do with any of the events you've listed.

I'd say it more to do with people not understanding (or caring to) the history and politics if the ME, nor having an understanding of religion/ability to question their faith.

Since man crawled out of the seas to dry land, one group has always tried to wipe out the rest for any reason they can come up with.

Having 'god says I ought to' does seem to be the top trumps in justification though.

They are stupid, silly little girls who have been suckered into something they don't even really understand. That's not to say I don't think there should be some form of punishment but equally I suspect they will be punished in many ways when they actually get there and find how horrific it is.

I also feel sorry for their families. Did you see the mother of the girl from Glasgow who went out last year? She was literally hanging her head in shame, poor woman.

Incidentally, I think it's true that many Muslims don't meet non Muslims but how many of us know Muslims or Jews for that matter?

Reader, I married one...

adsy not Muslim schools - I am not in favour of them, either, but there aren't many specifically Muslim schools. I am talking about non-denominational schools, who are (around here, anyway, and elsewhere) full of the kids who can't get into (and don't want) CofE and Catholic schools. They are monoreligious by default, not design. I think it would be much better for everyone if kids were brought up all mixed together, so any outrageous ideologies can be challenged within peer groups.

(And you may not have joined the IRA, but lots of other people did, sometimes very young.)

I'm going to belabour this point: why is putting restrictions on under 18s flying alone so preposterous an idea? I am assuming there are procedures for approving this beforehand when travelling as an unaccompanied minor where you are known to the flight crew and looked after by them. Why not have checks on all unaccompanied under 18s? I'm predicting that people will say 'it will inconvenience many teens who fly alone all the time' but will it really? How often do teenagers fly places without their parents, and what for? Other than things like school trips, I can only think of a) going to visit a parent or family member who lives abroad and b) teens going on group holidays after sitting A levels or whatever. Surely numbers aren't so high that it would be unfeasible? It doesn't seem like that unreasonable an expectation to have of airlines and airports, certainly compared to those people have of schools, which are supposed to be all to monitor and correct where needed the values and beliefs a child has grown up with. People mention that as though it's a five minute job easily achieved, yet apparently an extra layer of airport security is asking too much.

I know quite a few observant Muslims on a very friendly school-mum or neighbour basis. Enough to swap tips on good places to shop or what have you, to visit other's houses for a cuppa, etc.

(Sorry, was to louisebrooks)

I'd be quite happy to facilitate the exit of anybody who has extremists views and would concentrate my efforts on not letting them back in.

However I don't see why other countries citizens should be subjected to our murderous shits. They have enough of their own.

What we need in schools is religious eduction that looks at religions critically and that is mandatory to attend. Simply being in contact with the 'Kuffar' is not going to be enough to change peoples minds. For too long we've allowed Islam to proselytise and preach away and not actually looked very closely or challenge at all what it says - and I'm talking about appraising the mainstream core teachings and values, not the 'extremist' stuff.

Jewish people are integrated and in mainstream society as are alot of Moslems.

I agree mistress that the teaching may need to be scrutinised, very difficult, something is going very wrong,

Can't believe people actually feel sorry for these, at best, terrorist sympathisers. if they were boys and going over to behead people would there be all the wailing and "oh poor victim" posts on here? think not. But because they're girls possibly going over on the promise of the shag of a rich terrorist that makes them victims? These girls live in a western society. isis are all over the news every day. the beheadings are on youtube, free for people to watch if they so wish. Nobody is that stupid that they don't know what's going on. nobody is that isolated that they don't have access to the news, there's enough of it on front pages of the papers in the shops, they obviously had some freedom if they were able to leave the country without the knowledge of their families.

How many of you would want them to be friends with your children? want them living next door? even want them in your child's school? I sure as hell wouldn't, how could you be sure that whenever they got on a bus they weren't carrying a suicide bomb? you couldn't.

I agree

But you'll always get the bleeding hearts style posters.... Be a different story if they were personally affected. No, Syria can keep them