To wonder why London gets such a bad press?

[Campaspe]

I've seen a few threads on MN about moving house and living in or moving away from London. The general gist of them seems to be that London is awful, unfriendly and overpriced, whilst living up north is mostly cheap, friendly and just, well, better.

I'm not sure that's actually always the case. Disclaimer: I don't live anywhere near London, or come from there (and I promise I'm not shagging Boris too!). I love to visit it however, and I don't think there's another city anywhere in the UK that can hold a candle to it in terms of cultural offerings, history, excitement or attractions, even though I love most of the big cities of the UK. I do accept that being a capital city means that it is expensive and has lots of the social problems that beset all major conurbations.

It seems to me that in the end, it boils down to personal preference, but I don't really like the fashionable anti-city, anti-London pose that so many people like, particularly when it comes to a debate about north versus south. (It's like that other knee-jerk, ignorant anti-American prejudice that such people often spout). I find it puzzling that people denigrate the amount of money spent in London when it raises much of the capital that goes into projects over the rest of the country. And when I've seen worse poverty in London than anywhere else in the UK - and it somehow seems worse when there are very affluent areas just a short mile away.

So, why aren't people proud to have as a capital such a vibrant, diverse city such as London?

bigblue, that sounds like a lovely place. Perhaps somewhere I might move to when I'm older, particularly if I could get back to the heart of the Capital in 20mins

I love the variety of London - particularly the people, but also all the other stuff.

"...when a man (or MNer) is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford."

Big Tilly- when I say the "capital" I don't mean London.

I view London as similar to going to the Zoo...great for a short trip, not somewhere I'd ever want to live.

I live in a coastal town in Wales..the beach is 5 minutes in one direction, Countryside 5 minutes in the other, mountains and National Park 20 minutes away.

You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to live in a big dirty City tbh. Regardless of how many museums and restaurants there are.

bigTillyMint my mum used to say that to me all the time when I was growing up, it made me feel that I was inferior for being tired of London.

Now I know that was said about 18th century London, by a man that disliked Scotland and wanted his friend to leave it.

Now I've left London I have all the things in life that do not need to be 'afforded'

Aahh, OK!

Chessie, that's how I view Wales - fine for a short break. If it's not raining

It would be a fine mess if everyone wanted to live in the same place!

bigbluestars that sounds great! For many the benefits of living in a rural area blows city living right out of the water. I think those that have lived in the city might even appreciate country life more.

They say 'don't knock it until you've tried it' but if you have tried it, then I think you have every right to knock it, if it wasn't for you.

I've not RTFT but I think it's all to do with upbringing.

I grew up in a seaside town on the south coast, apart from a week in Wales to see my grandparents or a week in Devon I never left the county.

London was spoken of as a busy, dangerous place where people got mugged and everything was crowded and the pollution was high.
Any talks of going there were met with shocked faces and "but we'd have to get the train and the tube!

We had everything we needed at home so it was always just a big scary place a couple of hours away.

So when DS1 was born and was discovered to be very unwell, we got whisked to the centre of London and we come here fairly regularly now. I still walk down the busy streets with a look of a rabbit caught in the headlights about me, it terrifies me being here and being the adult who should know what's what.
Where I come from there is minimal traffic (in comparison) minimal people, we only have chain stores and the most exciting thing we have is a Next. I had to find somewhere to buy underwear for DS yesterday and I ended up in Gap, it was all I could find close by.

The opposite of DP who was raised to believe it's a fantastic place full of adventure and opportunity, he loves it here, he works here when he can and would live here if he could. He jumps on and off of tubes all day long and speaks of Oyster cards and different lines to get to different places like its second nature.

A big part of it is personal preference, obviously. Some people arent city people. Fair enough.

I think there are lots of people, though, who have lived in London, or would ideally live in London, and (rightly) feel very aggrieved about London property (and rental) prices and just cannot afford them.

I know many more of the latter, as I am in London. Lots of friends have moved out to commuter towns, some further afield, in order to afford housing. Most of those who came to London from other parts of the UK to study or work have ended up going home, and that is almost always because after having children they cant afford to buy a family home here.

People make their choices in tough circumstances. We were lucky enough to be able to afford a house in a decent area of London, but DH and I (diehard Londoners) have always been on the same page about what we would do if our financial situation ever changed: we would downsize and stay in London rather than ever leave. We would rather have a flat with no garden in London than a family home in a small town somewhere that we have no connection, no family, and without what we perceive to be the huge benefits of living here. I know many others feel differently...

One of DS's nurses had a chuckle at my face, we were looking out of interest at how much a 3 bed house would be very close to the hospital, it was £4000 a month, no garden, no parking, tiny rooms.

I pay £400 a month for a 3 bed with a garden and parking, I was genuinely gobsmacked, I live in an area that is meant to be hugely expensive to live in.

When I get home I shall laminate my tenancy agreement and clutch it close to me at all times

I wish I lived much closer to London (live near Leeds) as I love to visit and theres always something new to see. But I wouldn't want to live there, too much to cope with all the time and I'm a country bumpkin at heart!

The other thing I'd add just because it always strikes me on threads about London... is that when people say 'I'd find it too exhausting/its too huge and busy/its dirty and crime ridden' etc (or any other generalisation about London)...I often wonder how well they really know the city.

London is like a collection of many, many different 'villages'. Lots and lots of Londoners live in pretty average suburbs that are like any small town, really, in terms of lifestyle (I do!). Many Londoners dont commute into the city for work (neither I nor DH do). We only go into central London for social activities, really. I shop on my local high street, work locally...My life really isnt that stressful or chaotic .

I am moving to a quiet bit of South East London, I'm worried im going to get a bit bored

On a more serious note, I've been wondering if the reason I like london so much is because I have the income to enjoy it. Take away the salary, the house, our cars, our interesting careers, move me to zone 6 and maybe I won't be so enamoured of the place....

London is like a collection of many, many different 'villages'.

Yes, our area was like that. Always said morning to the local crack dealer

Ah, good old crack dealers. They do add a bit of local colour . Although I dont think there is much crack being smoked on my street. The Neighbourhood Watch curtain twitch brigade would be all over them.

And there are NO drugs outside of London, at all. Obviously.

I think it's more to do with personality than where and how you were raised.
I grew up in small towns, villages almost. But I'm ok in very large towns with complex transport systems. Give me a map and I'll happily go anywhere, get lost, find myself, enjoy the scenery. Even drive.

I grew up in a very small rural town, but the bigger the city the better and I kept moving to bigger cities as I got older.

London or New York would have been great too, but had the passport for here.

Many drugs taken outside London, but perhaps not so many per square foot!

Our area was treated like a village and in many ways that was great, I knew everyone to say hello, we had local shops and village green, but most residents actually acted like they lived in the country too, they wore Hunter wellies to the church summer fair, shopped in the farmers market, drove 4x4's to the local prep school or outstanding state, owned labradors and other country dogs and grew and ate their own toxic vegetables.

Then they would come home to find they'd been burgled and someone had keyed the side of their BMW. We were burgled twice and had to get a crack house order on the vacant property next door. For me personally, London was a massive headache. Where I live now it's an expedition just to go to the cinema and when it rains we are housebound, but I wouldn't swap it for the world!

I still love London though. We can visit and enjoy London when we want to without having to put up with the negatives.

I was born in London and my paternal side of the family has lived here for as many generations as you can be bothered to count. I currently rent a 2 bed flat in zone 3 because despite having 6 figure savings and 6 figure earnings we cant afford to buy anything we'd want to live in. So we're eyeing up a move outside the M25.

I'm so conflicted myself, I always saw my DS (and potential future DCs) growing up Londoners, like DP and me. The open space and long commute of the places I'm looking at fill me with dread. (But the big houses with gardens we can afford, fill me with excitement, not doing down the outer suburbs!)

I couldn't make anyone else from elsewhere love it the way I do. Any more than I could make them fancy DP or love DS. My relationship with London is the deep, irrational love of "home" and I completely understand that not everyone can or should feel that way, and that they might feel like that about somewhere else!

Which (to eventually answer your question OP) is why the discussions on pro / anti London get so heated. People get very passionate about places they live, have lived, want to live, want to leave and lots of people have personal experience of London due to it's size (in a way that they might not about Cambridge or Telford etc).

And I should have said I love living in London, I get that slight panicky, claustrophobic feeling in small towns.

People really are to their core city or country people and it's easy to be miserable in the wrong place.

As a non UK person visiting the UK I found London to be over rated. Birmingham was great - vibrant and very friendly. So was Sheffield - really nice City. Other cities are also really great to visit.

However, London compares badly to Paris, New York, Lisbon, Madrid, Zurich in terms of cleanliness, friendlines and atmosphere.
Maybe it's different to live there but as a visitor - on several occasions - it left me unimpressed.

It helps to be in it, not a tourist.

Not that there's anything wrong with visiting. But it's more what you can get out of it when you live here.

I think it boils down to different strokes for different folks. It's great that every where and every one is so different.

Not living in London does NOT = living in the country!!

There are many other cities in the UK.

I love cities. I live in one. And I lived in London for the best part of a decade but the thing I found hard about London is that's it's very hard to get out of. The suburbs and commuter belt sprawls and sprawls. On a beautifully sunny Sunday if you want to visit the countryside the traffic on the A3 or similar is just awful.

Every week there are threads about London. The way I see it though is that many people who live outside London couldn't give a shiny shit about it. However the media, and some residents, carry on like it is the only place on earth.
What gets people's dander up is the way SOME people from London run the rest of the country down and don't 'get' living outside London.