To wonder why London gets such a bad press?

[Campaspe]

I've seen a few threads on MN about moving house and living in or moving away from London. The general gist of them seems to be that London is awful, unfriendly and overpriced, whilst living up north is mostly cheap, friendly and just, well, better.

I'm not sure that's actually always the case. Disclaimer: I don't live anywhere near London, or come from there (and I promise I'm not shagging Boris too!). I love to visit it however, and I don't think there's another city anywhere in the UK that can hold a candle to it in terms of cultural offerings, history, excitement or attractions, even though I love most of the big cities of the UK. I do accept that being a capital city means that it is expensive and has lots of the social problems that beset all major conurbations.

It seems to me that in the end, it boils down to personal preference, but I don't really like the fashionable anti-city, anti-London pose that so many people like, particularly when it comes to a debate about north versus south. (It's like that other knee-jerk, ignorant anti-American prejudice that such people often spout). I find it puzzling that people denigrate the amount of money spent in London when it raises much of the capital that goes into projects over the rest of the country. And when I've seen worse poverty in London than anywhere else in the UK - and it somehow seems worse when there are very affluent areas just a short mile away.

So, why aren't people proud to have as a capital such a vibrant, diverse city such as London?

I lived in London for 15 years and worked in Central London.
It does have problems, but generally I enjoyed it.

Now I'm in another country in a small town and also like it.
I do like it that I can cross it in about 5 min and easily be with friends and family, whereas in London it was at least 30 min to get anywhere near ILs.

But I found very friendly people in London. It's just that most people just go about their business and aren't often making eye contact or smiling at you. It suits me fine, though. :)

I love going back to London when I can.

it's just that rural poverty doesn't make nearly as many headlines as urban poverty.

I agree with this. Having grown up in rural poverty, it is isolating, alienating and what's worse people pretend it doesn't exist. I've met people throughout adulthood who dispute that there are council estates in the county I grew up in! Or 'everyone's a farmer' and therefore loaded.

No, Hester, of course I don't know that. I am making an educated guess.

Which would you say are the top 5 most important cities in the world?

And, indeed, I didn't equate being the most important with being the best to live in. However, it adds a certain frisson.

Many post positively on any thread about London. Loads of people say they love living there.

Too many people and less space. People are willing to pay more for a nicer area or a better school.
I suppose because London attracts people (despite the bad press).

I think you're right that it is personal preference, but I think it's a pretty absolute one if that makes sense. Someone upthread said they just couldn't imagine living north of Watford. I simply couldn't imagine living in a large city, least of all London. If what you love is the bustle and the activity then of course the idea of living in a village in the middle of nowhere would seem mad. But, for someone like me, who loves the quiet and the open spaces and the muddy walks, the idea of living in any city, least of all London, fills me with horror. It's the absolute opposite of the lifestyle that makes me happy.

I think the problem with these sorts of quite 'gut' reactions to things is that some people phrase them as absolutes rather than personal preference, perhaps out of defensiveness? When I was a kid I would definitely have said that London was horrible and crowded and dirty - now I'm much happier to own my preferences and to say that I'm sure it's a place that many people enjoy, but it just isn't for me.

(I think for people who love the countryside the sense of anti-Londoness is compounded by the expense, which is just undeniable. I recently moved to live by the sea and it is my dream location. When I read that people in London in a one-bed flat are paying twice what we do for a two-bed flat with a sea view! You'd have to pay me to swap those locations - but, once again, I do realise this is just a personal preference! But I think for some people figures quoted r.e. rental prices etc just confirms them in their non-London life choices, and magnifies their anti-London feelings, IYSWIM!)

Is also a lot of what you are used to... I live in an expensive part of West London, since I was born. I certainly am not rich, but It's just home to me and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I like being able to walk to the shops, jump on a tube, bus.... Be near everywhere I want to go to. I lived in NZ for a year and as beautiful as it was, I couldn't wait to come home!

I love London, the buzz, the vibrancy, the opportunities, the size, the only place on earth which comes close is New York.

New York
London
Sydney
Mumbai

Cities I'd like to live in.
I'd also like to live somewhere bucolic but only if I could have a bolt hole in one of those cities.

There are 8 and a half million people living in London. Manchester doesn't even come close in terms of size (About 2.5 million?). So housing is expensive and the cost of living is high.

But it's fabulous! And frankly with 8.6m people to talk to, Londoners are not required to care about non-Londoners' opinions of their city.

Not a fan of London

Singapore
Amsterdam
SanFranciso all great.

Tbh, you would be far quicker making a list of things which don't get a bad press such as homicidal maniacs

If you read too much on here, you will be advised that London is bad, the whole South East is bad, the Government is bad beyond description, working mothers are bad, "rich" people are bad (even if they simply do well paid jobs commensurate with their own skills), ad infinitum.

Its kind of like the anti-Daily Mail. Really strongly entrenched views, not really representing a balanced mix of society, but presented as though they do.

I live an hour away from London by train, which is perfect for me. I used to live in London but I found it too overcrowded, rude, dirty and busy. I love cities, but I prefer cities which are more laid back and less populated. I now go back to London on day trips occasionally but I find by the end of the day I am very ready to go home again. London does have good art galleries and museums.

MN is full of people who love living in London, with all that entails. Have you missed those posts OP?

Some of us would hate to live in such a crowded, busy city. But that's all good surely?

Horses for courses and all that....

I'm not in London (I'm Essex but they class us as "London Borough of Havering" )
I'm the most polite (ie soft touch) driver , I let cars filter in when I'm in a queue (A127 ) and I don't go for the nearest parking space. I let people in front of me in the supermarket and didn't go in a rage when a child sitting next to me accidently kicked me twice

But on the Underground........................after 10 minutes, The Rage takes over. I'll be the one trying to get off while people are trying to get on , shouting "Let me OFF the bloody train, eh?"

And woman on the train who literally shoved me aside to get on before me. How I fecking laughed when you found out you'd got on the wrong one .

I think a big part of the problem is that you very often don't encounter a horses for courses attitude. Instead what you get is, 'London is super special awesome, I feel sorry for people who don't get it'.

The fact is, many, many people living outside don't give London any thought whatsoever, and genuinely don't care about whether it's in the top 5 most important cities or whatever. Some of them even dislike it when then have to visit London.

That would all be fine if a small but noisy minority of voices didn't always offer some sort of bemusement or even pity that they don't feel 'proud' of London or want to spend time there.

It has it's pros and cons just like any place in the world. Nowhere is perfect and all good and everyone has different tastes. Capital City living isn't for everyone, some people prefer the quiet and so I imagine could find London quite traumatic...

I used to visit quite often as a child because my dad lives there. It's certainly very different from Yorkshire where I'm from and still live. People definitely aren't as warm or friendly, it's very hectic and hustle bustle. From what I witnessed people are quite self absorbed and solely focused on where they need to get to and what they need to do and manners don't exist much iykwim. Suits me fine, I'm not really into small talk . On the plus side there's so much to see and do, a lot of it for free or very little money! The transport system is impeccable and there's a lot of different places to eat, it's excellent for vegetarian and vegans which I do envy very much.

I think a lot of the country is pissed off with the way London has everything. Everything is focused in London, it's almost as if the rest of the UK doesn't exist and the UK is solely just London. A lot of people I've met abroad immediately say "oh, so you're from London?" When I say I'm British. It's a shame because there's so much more to the UK than London.

Visiting and living are two different things though, I know that much. My dad is pretty sick since he moved down there because of the pollution levels, he now has asthma and regular chest infections.

I'm not from London but have lived here for 14 years and managed to buy property at the right time so have a decent sized house in a so-so area.

People mighn't be as friendly but that's because they probably have a longer commute and after a day's work who wants to make small-talk with a random stranger anyway but i've always found people in London to be helpful when i've used public transport with the kids.

I imagine the problem a lot of people in London have is that they would consider moving away from London due to sky-high rent and housing prices but the reality is that a lot of areas up North just don't have the same density of jobs as down here so you get sucked into a cycle of paying the sky-high rents/mortgage because that is the only way to access jobs and move ahead in your chosen career.

You can move around in your chosen field and acquire the necessary experience a lot quicker in London simply because there are more jobs here than in a lot of Northern cities and that's before we even get started on the jobs and careers that don't really exist outside of London.

I think because London is constantly re-inventing itself and re-generating that there is a certain vitality to London that is unique to here

Surely your opinion the world's most important cities depends entirely on you and where you live? Taking this to extremes, and probably being somewhat facetious, the most important cities I think are Truro, Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol and Cardiff.

If I was from Hyderabad or Boulder, Colorado my answer would be different again

There is a difference between cities I'd want to live in and the most important cities in the world.

I don't think you're well travelled in the UK.

London has its highlights but it can't rival Edinburgh in August when all the festivals are on.

As for poverty, parts of the west of Scotland are third world compared to even the most deprived parts of London.

I dont live there but I love London, I love going for a wander, hopping on and off the tube. I've walked around some allegedly 'dodgy' areas on my own at night, taken the night bus from north to south east London at 2 am while ridiculously drunk and never felt unsafe.
I'm a little in love with it.

Hello 70isalimit, I'm on the A127 as well. I do miss London buses As they are so frequent. I lived in North London for 30 years.