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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To object to paying two lots of council tax

254 replies

googlenut · 19/02/2015 20:08

We pay really high rates on our own property. We have a rental property - a small flat- which we have been unable to rent. We have just been faced with a £650 council tax bill. If we had students in it the flat would be exempt, if we had one person in it we would get 25% discount but instead we have to pay the full amount when it is empty. I just can't see the fairness of this - but willing to listen if someone can explain the justice of it.

OP posts:
TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 20/02/2015 09:06

God, lots of bitter, jealous knob ends out in force at the moment.

Yes, if you are concerned about homelessness and affordable housing in this country, you are a bitter, jealous knob end. How very insightful.

adsy · 20/02/2015 09:17

tondelay read my scenario and give me your thoughtful insight into how I'm directly contributing to homelessness and a lack of affordable housing. Should I let someone live in the house for free?

christinarossetti · 20/02/2015 09:45

"Just to be clear the vast majority of buy to let properties are on interest only mortgages. So tenants aren't actually paying off the mortgage of landlords,' says googlenut.

What the hell is an interest only mortgage if it's not a mortgage, fgs? If the mortgage is interest only, the tenants are paying off the largest part of the loan. Most landlords can't afford to pay the mortgage without the property being tenanted, hence their rent is paying the mortgage.

You're views of what is 'fair' are very different to mine, I must say.

You overpriced your property and no-one wanted to rent it. How on earth is that 'unfair'?

PrimalLass · 20/02/2015 09:47

primalass I think that shows the inherent problem with the housing market, rents and house prices are to much for your local area

Rents aren't too much - there is just nothing to rent.

0x530x610x750x630x79 · 20/02/2015 09:54

you only have to pay after it is empty for 6 months. It is to stop people buying houses hoping the will raise in value never intending to have anyoneone living in them.

or all the empty houses of people in homes who will never return to them.

Original poster
googlenut · 20/02/2015 09:56

Not since 2013 - you have to pay from month one.

OP posts:
MajesticWhine · 20/02/2015 10:47

The rule does actually vary - it is up to each council to decide

lemisscared · 20/02/2015 11:53

You have a business in your property - unless you inherited it and are lumbared then i have no sympathy im afraid.

If the business isn't working, stop doing it, sell the property and move on.

I have seen alot of student rentals - i wouldn't let my dog stay in one, if yours isn't renting, i can't imagine how bad it is.

lemisscared · 20/02/2015 12:13

Im not bitter - i own my own house. I have friends who are landlords - one is an excellent landlord, runs her flat via an agency and makes sure that everything is as it should be. She makes a small profit on her INVESTMENT.

My other friend is a student landlord and i cringe at his property, yet he still manages to rent it for top dollar. I have worked with DP in many rental properties and the landlords want the absolute minimum work done with little or no expense.

Not all landlords are like this - some are like my first friend, she makes the most profit though and is a good business woman.

Not all businesses work, sometimes you just have to cut your losses but don't whinge about the cost of running that business.

The OP bought this property to rent out, its not renting, why?

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/02/2015 12:19

itsaysonthetin
"God, lots of bitter, jealous knob ends out in force at the moment."

Or people that just want to own their own property but can't.

babygiraffe86 · 20/02/2015 12:22

my word - yes most btl mortgages are interest only, but when it is rented you are supposed to be saving to pay off some of the capital - or to cover the interest when it does end up empty.

if you have tenants they are liable for the council tax, not you.

it sounds very much like you haven't looked into btl. it is a livable propery with working functions therefore is liable for council tax.
if it had no working bathrooms council tax is not chargeable as it is not livable.
it is your responsibility to let the property, not the councils. why should they not charge??

Weebirdie · 20/02/2015 12:35

Its not unreasonable to own 1, 2, or more properties but it is very unreasonable to not want to pay council tax on them.

I have a home in the UK that we stay in a few weeks of a year but everything that should be paid is and it really shouldn't the any other way.

xenu1 · 20/02/2015 12:36

To OP. (I'm male BTW)

You have triggered many heartfelt replies: the UK property market is hateful. property is far too expensive (and I am an owner). I can sympathise; I have a flat that I let but kept it empty for 4 months while we sorted out issues (alcohol). My DP is gone and the flat is now let; I paid the CT while it was empty. What I am trying to say tho is that I was happy to pay the CT. The empty flat was our issues being sorted and why should it be CT free? There are so many people wanting to live somewhere

My advice is to let it cheaply, or else sell. But I know how easy it is to give advice :)

MirandaWest · 20/02/2015 12:43

I'm another person who is about to have a period where I'm renting two houses at once. Currently only adult in this property and am moving in with my boyfriend. So we will be paying the full amount at that house.

At this house I have paid up for this year (february and March are the months off). I move mid March but still have this house until April. So I presumed I'd have to pay the single person rate for the time in April I'm here.

But no as soon as I move out I have to pay full rate as you can only get the discounted rate if you live there. This is slightly frustrating me.

Apatite1 · 20/02/2015 12:45

YABU to not want to pay council tax.

YANBU being a landlord and don't deserve the vitriol from some posters above.

pigglewiggle · 20/02/2015 13:16

Yabvu.

I went traveling for a year, had no job and still had to pay full ct. I didn't mind though as I like paying for teachers, hospitals and fire men and this is just part of a modern society. I dread to think what it would be like without these.

ChuckitintheBucket · 20/02/2015 14:03

I have never understood the hate on mumsnet for landlords and certainly not come across it in RL. A pp mentioned that people were fortunate if they owned two properties. We bought our first house in the late 80s, interest rates then sky rocketed to a rate I imagine a lot of you have never seen (18%). Me and DH worked our arses off keeping that roof over our heads (I guess we could have thrown the towel in and thrown ourselves at the mercy of the council, the thought never occured to us tbh).
Then we were in the "fortunate" position of DH losing his mum which meant we inherited her house. We rent out our second house through the council. We did the place up first to make it a nice place for someone to live as it was very old fashioned.
We are good landlords and our tenant seems very happy.
OP yabu though and the policy does seem to vary between councils, we did not have to pay any CT when the property was empty while we did it up.

pigglewiggle · 20/02/2015 15:28

Surely the hate comes from housing being a finite reasorce, and the well off are able to buy and keep artificiality high and thus deprive less well off from buying a home. London has pretty much been sold off.

xenu1 · 20/02/2015 16:34

to add again. It is quite reasonable (ISQR? :)) that "second" or subsequent homes are liable to CT. Its really unfair on poorer people otherwise. Why should poorer renters pay CT when wealthy second-home owners leave property empty and don't pay?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 20/02/2015 17:34

Adsy, I can't comment on your scenario as you haven't explained it in your post.

You have a house, you can't sell it for the price you need - that's all your post says.

bbcessex · 20/02/2015 18:13

Isn't council tax supposed to pay for services used in the borough, like refuse collection, leisure centres etc? If that's the theory, why should the OP pay twice on an empty property? There's no additional people using those services.

UsernamesHarderThanBabyNames · 20/02/2015 18:28

Another former accidental landlord here. My old flat (in a v cheap area of London, zone 4) took two years to sell. And I wasn't being greedy, I finally ended up selling it last year for the same as I paid for it after being in negative equity for a time (bought it just before crash). During the two year period of trying to sell it (I'd moved in with my now DH) I rented it out for a time to a tenant who caused thousands of pounds of damage and whose rent did not cover my mortgage. During the time that it was empty I too had to pay two lots of council tax despite obviously not using council services. I'm still in a lot of debt as a result of all of the above. Not all landlords are money grabbing arseholes!

ShakyStart · 20/02/2015 18:31

As a landlord currently paying 75percent of the council tax each month whilst we attempt to sell the property (by the way, we rent somewhere else and so are tenants in another property and do NOT own another property) I agree wholeheartedly with bbcessex. Council tax is to pay for the local services, if there's no one living in the property, we should not have to pay. The council tax freeze is the reason why the council's took away the right to an exemption for an empty property.

muminhants · 20/02/2015 18:39

I can understand why you'd be annoyed at paying the single person's council tax and then because you move out you have to pay the full rate. That does seem rather strange and once people know that they're not going to bother telling the council they've moved out.

But I am totally with all the people who have no sympathy because they want to get on the housing ladder. Or don't want their local countryside concreted over because we apparently need so many more houses despite having around a million empty ones aside from all the brownfield sites that could be used, offices converted etc.

bbcessex · 20/02/2015 18:55

For those who are haranguing the OP for owning more that one property; did you know that if you convert a garage or similar, to make an annexe for an adult DC who can't afford to move out, then you will also be liable to pay separate council tax on this unit too?

I don't think that's particularly fair either.